686489 - Allow to download Fennec apk directly per http from download page, in addition to Google Play

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(www.mozilla.org :: Pages & Content, defect)

Description

[DongShengXue]

In China, android market is not very popular, there are many markets. So download from android market is not very easy. And we need to release the local version simultaneously with official version. So we hope to have a entry to download fennec released apk in webpage, not only in android market

Comment 1

[Wesley Johnston (:wesj)]

Just to be clear, these are Chinese users coming to the US website, something that's apparently pretty common for early adopters there. We don't currently offer a download link on that site, in order to not confuse users.

Ideally we'll also be able to offer to download a build that has the Mozilla updater enabled (and offer updates from it). Since bandwidth is a concern, there is a good chance they will ignore the update, but at least they will be notified to go download it when they return to their desktop machine.

Comment 3

[Matt Brubeck (:mbrubeck)]

Un-duping, since the work to add a download link to the website will be separate from the work to enable auto-updates in bug 631824.

Comment 4

[Anthony Ricaud (:rik)]

CCing Jaclyn.

IIRC, we had other users complaining about the lack of a non Market download but I can't find the bugs.

Comment 5

[Jaclyn Fu]

There were discussions of putting Firefox in 3rd party markets, but the distribution policies were not up to standards.  

I think having a page like http://www.mozilla.org/firefox/all.html for mobile would be helpful.  What were some of the reasons why Firefox is only available on the Android Market and not also as a direct apk?

Comment 7

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Reproduction:
1. Go to http://www.mozilla.com/mobile/download/
2. Try to download the APK with your desktop browser

Actual result:
* Impossible.
* You can download an apk from ftp.mozilla.org just fine. It just isn't linked on the download page, so normal users won't find it.

Expected result:
Button [ Download and install Firefox directly ] has a direct http link to the apk, which I can download, transfer to the mobile, and install there.

There needs to be a prominent and obvious way to download Firefox Mobile without Google Market.

Importance:
There are several scenarios where I want to download it directly:
* Google Market forces you to register a Google account. You may not notice, because you have chosen to register, but if you don't, you will notice that Google Market simply doesn't work at all without that. Google just changed its privacy policy. If I don't like it, people tell me that I don't have to register. Well, I don't. Does that mean I am not allowed to install Firefox??? Just because I don't like Google's treatment of my personal data.
* I have 4 Android devices, and most of them don't ship with Google Market, period. Google has stiff requirements to the device maker and may simply don't want to or cannot comply. There are many devices without Google Market. Many of my devices simply don't have Google Market. Again, roadblock.
* I couldn't get the network of the Android device to work yet, but USB worked, and I had several books as locally saved HTML files that I wanted to read on the mobile.

There are tons of other situations where this is needed.

The APK is already on the ftp server, and it works just fine and out of the box. There's no reason not to offer a direct download link. Please do that, it's important.

Comment 8

[Jaclyn Fu]

Couple of questions:

-How many people do we think will download this way? We looked at this method for Aurora because it wasn't available from Google Play, how many people will we gain if we do this for GA?
-Will we still be able to control what devices can install? Google Play lets us block it from devices we're not supported on
-It will affect our metrics from Google Play, and this might hurt our ranking/discoverability
-It will fragment the acquisition funnel, will we still be able to track these installs? 
-Are we sure the update behavior will be the same across all users? What are some other possible user facing implications?

Comment 9

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

> -How many people do we think will download this way?

I think the better perspective is: How many people do we *lock out*, if we don't offer this way?

As I mentioned above, there is a considerable amount of devices that simply don't have "Google Market" / "Google Play", because they are not Google approved. Google Market is not part of Android, but a proprietary application of Google. Archos, for example, doesn't have them. I had 5 Android devices, of which 3-4 didn't have Google Market.

Plus, there are dramatic privacy consequences by associating your device with a Google account, which is a precondition to using Google Play. I don't think we want to force users into something they don't want, esp. when it comes to giving up privacy to third parties.

> Will we still be able to control what devices can install?
> Google Play lets us block it from devices we're not supported on

No. But why should we? From what I experienced, the Android APK installer will block installs that don't work.

This is comparable to the "net installer" vs. "full download" discussion. You can argue for the net installer, because it adapts better to the user's system, but most users nevertheless prefer a full installer that they can
- download on a different system than the target system (which is particularly important on mobile)
- save for installation later (e.g. when you have several devices, or just like to save things)

> It will affect our metrics from Google Play

True, but you have statistics about your download mirrors.

Your primary marketing will not rely on Google Play ranking (this is futile anyway, because Google is a direct competitor to us and can always special-feature their products), but on newspapers and word of mouth.

Goodwill from users depends directly on doing what users need, i.e. things like this bug.

Comment 10

[Kevin Brosnan [Ex-Mozilla]]

We would need the updater that is in the Aurora/Nightly turned on for Beta/Release but not break the Play Store updater. There are also some high profile bugs with the updater that have gone unfixed because it is not code that we ship on the Play Store. bug 714739, bug 750077 & bug 729780.

Comment 11

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

ping

Comment 12

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

This is blocking users from using Firefox on Android.

Comment 13

[Ton [:Tonnes]]

+1. Though I recall asking jbeatty about why it’s so hard to download an apk outside of Google Play at the recent summit and I tend to understand the policy behind it, I still think it should be just as easy as downloading any other product from Mozilla websites. It’s a free world, and I can’t think of any reason why Google should assume Mozilla websites not to be reliable enough so that users of Mozilla products, whether dedicated or experienced users or not, should not be allowed to download Fennec from other websites than Google Play. Regarding the update feature only supplied by GP, I’d say mentioning this on the download page would be enough to make users decide if they want to download Fennec from GP or not.

I’d say the argument of “not very popular in China” would be enough to make this possible, which would also be valid for other countries. GP isn’t popular for me and some people I know either, and we simply find it hard to live with the fact that apps on Android are controlled and monitored by Google, as well as the annoying requirement to set up and use a persistent Gmail email address for an Android device, hence being traced by all that we download as well as our whereabouts. Numerous users would prefer to download anything outside of GP if it was up to them, and their will to take the risk of downloading apps that might not be validated by Google is their own, as well as a feature supplied by Android itself (by allowing apps from unknown sources). If I wasn’t contributing to the product and/or didn’t know where to find it, I’d probably not download Fennec either.

CCing Jeff, as I mention his name and maybe he has some valid input on this.

Comment 14

[zimon]

Fennec is open source, so use F-Droid repository. It is the most logical place to look OSS  apps.

Comment 15

[zimon]

Why comment #14 was marked off topic? 

Firefox Fennec is allowed to be downloaded directly from F-Droid repositories. And it is a good place for it because F-Droid has an manager app which reminds you about updates and also has a consistent features to see eg. version history and install older versions if needed.
https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdfilter=fennec&fdid=org.mozilla.fennec_fdroid

F-droid is a correct place to look for Open Source Android apps and preferably one should install OSS apps from there rather than from Google Play, if Snowden is wanted to be listened.

Comment 16

[Josh Mize [:jgmize]]

:Habber, I'm going to continue our conversation from https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1139691#c22 here. I believe we should at minimum follow the suggestion of comment #5 and create a /firefox/android/all/ page similar to the https://www.mozilla.org/firefox/all/ page we have for desktop, and that page can have direct links to the various apks hosted found under https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/releases/latest/ (not necessarily direct links, as it would probably be better to put them on a CDN). I was surprised and a little sad when I found out we did not already have such a page, and I think we should prioritize creating one and linking to it from the appropriate places.

That page should probably have some copy about the recommended option is to download from google play if available for the user's device, and some instructions for enabling "Unknown sources" under Settings > security (see http://developer.android.com/distribute/tools/open-distribution.html) if they haven't already.

Finally, regarding comment #14 and comment #15 on this bug: while the comments are not necessarily "off-topic", I do not think we should promote F-Droid as an alternative to google play: it would clearly be better to provide direct links to apks than promote a site that claims that Firefox "Tracks You" and "Promotes Non-Free Addons" in big red boxes, which is the first thing I noticed when I followed the link in comment #15.

Comment 17

[zimon]

F-droid just takes privacy and security seriously. They have told about their privacy policy in about page https://f-droid.org/about/

In a web version of Fennec F-droid page, where are those notes about "Tracks you" and "Promotes Non-Free Addons", are also links what they mean about with those notices. 
"Tracks you":  https://f-droid.org/wiki/page/Antifeature:Tracking
By default Fennec sends some usage reports to mozilla, unless a user disables it.

"Promotes Non-Free addons": https://f-droid.org/wiki/page/Antifeature:NonFreeAdd
About this I didn't know. Does Fennec promote non-free addons, or is there a mistake?

Well, anyway, Fennec is in no way an exception in F-droid. Other OSS apps also have had those warnings if they meet those criterias, like OsmAnd (a good OSS navigation app)

What it comes to bug 1139691, in F-droid manager app there is an automatic detection, so eg. ARM or X86 users will get the correct architecture version of Fennec app. And some apps have finer grain of optimization for different ARM-versions or co-chips, which F-droid manages to auto detect and get the correct version of an app. 

Of course all OSS apps ideally would have ALSO their own place where to get the newest version and hopefully a Git repository where from one could make a "git clone". But eg. for me it would be rather tedious to monitor and check new versions for all 39 different OSS apps I have installed from F-droid, unless F-droid management app would check the possible new versions for me automatically.

(Disclaimer: I am not in any other relation to F-droid but as a user. Just found this bug when trying myself to find a place where to download an app directly and same time found out one can download directly with a web browser from F-droid, so I noticed this "bug" is actually kind of solved there.)

Comment 18

[Malena Andrade [:malenita]]

Quick mock on the direction for new page (/firefox/android/all/). Still need to add in colours and icons. https://www.dropbox.com/s/jhrpjtuok3squql/Screenshot%202015-06-08%2015.08.12.png?dl=0

I would need copy for this. Can anybody in this thread let me know who would be best for copy updates? Currently mock has placeholder text.

Comment 19

[Malena Andrade [:malenita]]

Here are a few icon variations. https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ljqdmxjh4n3x9g/downloadAPK_3.png?dl=0

Ty, Lee, Habber let me know you are creative? Can I get some feedback on the icons. 

As for copy, still waiting on that. Does anybody in this thread know who would be in charge of that?

Thanks!

Comment 20

[Lee Tom]

Hi Malena, thanks for sharing the icons with us. Does this mockup show the need for 3 unique icons or are these iterations for the same icon? Is there a preferred file size/ file type for the asset? Some additional context here will help us provide more constructive feedback for you.

For copy (and design) help, please fill out this form as it'll help us track the project and get it in our queue: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/form.creative

Comment 21

[Malena Andrade [:malenita]]

(In reply to Lee Tom from comment #20)
> Hi Malena, thanks for sharing the icons with us. Does this mockup show the
> need for 3 unique icons or are these iterations for the same icon? Is there
> a preferred file size/ file type for the asset? Some additional context here
> will help us provide more constructive feedback for you.
> 
> For copy (and design) help, please fill out this form as it'll help us track
> the project and get it in our queue:
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/form.creative

Thanks Lee! Yes the mockup includes three design versions. It will be used as an icon so I can export as an SVG. Will fill out form thanks for information!

Comment 22

[Malena Andrade [:malenita]]

Waiting on creative: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1175990

Comment 23

[Malena Andrade [:malenita]]

(In reply to Josh Mize [:jgmize] from comment #16)
> :Habber, I'm going to continue our conversation from
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1139691#c22 here. I believe we
> should at minimum follow the suggestion of comment #5 and create a
> /firefox/android/all/ page similar to the
> https://www.mozilla.org/firefox/all/ page we have for desktop, and that page
> can have direct links to the various apks hosted found under
> https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/releases/latest/ (not
> necessarily direct links, as it would probably be better to put them on a
> CDN). I was surprised and a little sad when I found out we did not already
> have such a page, and I think we should prioritize creating one and linking
> to it from the appropriate places.
> 
> That page should probably have some copy about the recommended option is to
> download from google play if available for the user's device, and some
> instructions for enabling "Unknown sources" under Settings > security (see
> http://developer.android.com/distribute/tools/open-distribution.html) if
> they haven't already.
> 
> Finally, regarding comment #14 and comment #15 on this bug: while the
> comments are not necessarily "off-topic", I do not think we should promote
> F-Droid as an alternative to google play: it would clearly be better to
> provide direct links to apks than promote a site that claims that Firefox
> "Tracks You" and "Promotes Non-Free Addons" in big red boxes, which is the
> first thing I noticed when I followed the link in comment #15.

Hi Josh,

I got creative feedback and now I'm working on this new page. Just need a bit more info.

Where are we linking this new page from? 

This new page includes android icons with the text "download" for each apk. Are we linking directly to https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/releases/latest/ or should we put them on a CDN and link to that?

Wondering if you can direct me to the correct person for copy as well.

Thanks!

Comment 24

[Josh Mize [:jgmize]]

(In reply to Malena Andrade [:malenita] from comment #23)

> Where are we linking this new page from? 

I think we should add a small link to this new page next to or below anywhere we link to the play store. The html template results listed in https://github.com/mozilla/bedrock/search?q=GOOGLE_PLAY_FIREFOX_LINK seem like a good start to me.

> This new page includes android icons with the text "download" for each apk.
> Are we linking directly to
> https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/releases/latest/ or should we
> put them on a CDN and link to that?

While a CDN might be helpful in the future, I don't think it should be a blocker for our initial implementation. We should measure the amount of traffic resulting from this change both for the additional load on the "ftp" server and for the increase in android downloads, and that will help us decide whether a CDN implementation is justified. We could add a GA event and/or do some log analysis for this. We may want to consider adding a param to the direct link to aid in this analysis.

> Wondering if you can direct me to the correct person for copy as well.

I'm curious about that myself. I'm adding a NI for :malexis, he should know who normally provides copy for things like this.

> Thanks!

No, thank you! I appreciate your efforts, and I'm glad we're finally making progress on this long overdue bug.

Comment 25

[Malena Andrade [:malenita]]

(In reply to Josh Mize [:jgmize] from comment #24)
> (In reply to Malena Andrade [:malenita] from comment #23)
> 
> > Where are we linking this new page from? 
> 
> I think we should add a small link to this new page next to or below
> anywhere we link to the play store. The html template results listed in
> https://github.com/mozilla/bedrock/search?q=GOOGLE_PLAY_FIREFOX_LINK seem
> like a good start to me.

Great tip to share search on github! 
I've added the link below the button as shown here in this screenshot. Link copy was taken from comment #7.
Let me know if copy and position under button is okay and I can start adding them to all pages.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e8xpmn0jqwc85vw/Screenshot%202015-07-08%2011.04.49.png?dl=0


> 
> > This new page includes android icons with the text "download" for each apk.
> > Are we linking directly to
> > https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/releases/latest/ or should we
> > put them on a CDN and link to that?
> 
> While a CDN might be helpful in the future, I don't think it should be a
> blocker for our initial implementation. We should measure the amount of
> traffic resulting from this change both for the additional load on the "ftp"
> server and for the increase in android downloads, and that will help us
> decide whether a CDN implementation is justified. We could add a GA event
> and/or do some log analysis for this. We may want to consider adding a param
> to the direct link to aid in this analysis.
> 
> > Wondering if you can direct me to the correct person for copy as well.
> 
> I'm curious about that myself. I'm adding a NI for :malexis, he should know
> who normally provides copy for things like this.
> 
> > Thanks!
> 
> No, thank you! I appreciate your efforts, and I'm glad we're finally making
> progress on this long overdue bug.

Comment 26

[Holly Habstritt Gaal [:Habber]]

(In reply to Malena Andrade [:malenita] from comment #25)
> (In reply to Josh Mize [:jgmize] from comment #24)
> > (In reply to Malena Andrade [:malenita] from comment #23)
> > 
> > > Where are we linking this new page from? 
> > 
> > I think we should add a small link to this new page next to or below
> > anywhere we link to the play store. The html template results listed in
> > https://github.com/mozilla/bedrock/search?q=GOOGLE_PLAY_FIREFOX_LINK seem
> > like a good start to me.
> 
> Great tip to share search on github! 
> I've added the link below the button as shown here in this screenshot. Link
> copy was taken from comment #7.
> Let me know if copy and position under button is okay and I can start adding
> them to all pages.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/e8xpmn0jqwc85vw/Screenshot%202015-07-08%2011.04.49.
> png?dl=0
> 
> 
> > 
> > > This new page includes android icons with the text "download" for each apk.
> > > Are we linking directly to
> > > https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/releases/latest/ or should we
> > > put them on a CDN and link to that?
> > 
> > While a CDN might be helpful in the future, I don't think it should be a
> > blocker for our initial implementation. We should measure the amount of
> > traffic resulting from this change both for the additional load on the "ftp"
> > server and for the increase in android downloads, and that will help us
> > decide whether a CDN implementation is justified. We could add a GA event
> > and/or do some log analysis for this. We may want to consider adding a param
> > to the direct link to aid in this analysis.
> > 
> > > Wondering if you can direct me to the correct person for copy as well.
> > 
> > I'm curious about that myself. I'm adding a NI for :malexis, he should know
> > who normally provides copy for things like this.
> > 
> > > Thanks!
> > 
> > No, thank you! I appreciate your efforts, and I'm glad we're finally making
> > progress on this long overdue bug.

Looks great. I think we're set for the design on /firefox/android/all/

Question for everyone regarding displaying a link to the /android/all/ on the Android product page: 
Is there a list of countries where we know users don't always have access to the play store? I'd like to consider only displaying this link to users for whom it will be valuable and not a distraction from the google play store link. When/where possible we want to drive users to download from the play store because it contains screenshots and ratings and other information that is kept up to date.

Comment 27

[Josh Mize [:jgmize]]

(In reply to Holly Habstritt Gaal [:Habber] from comment #26)
> Question for everyone regarding displaying a link to the /android/all/ on
> the Android product page: 
> Is there a list of countries where we know users don't always have access to
> the play store? I'd like to consider only displaying this link to users for
> whom it will be valuable and not a distraction from the google play store
> link. When/where possible we want to drive users to download from the play
> store because it contains screenshots and ratings and other information that
> is kept up to date.

Play store availability is device specific, not country specific-- there are a large number of android devices in the US that have no access to google play services because the manufacturer doesn't have the appropriate relationship with Google-- Amazon's "Fire" series of devices are probably the most popular example of this. UA sniffing is also a non-starter for this purpose, so we're going to have to come up with copy and placement that we're comfortable with showing to all users.

Comment 28

[Josh Mize [:jgmize]]

(In reply to Josh Mize [:jgmize] from comment #27)
> (In reply to Holly Habstritt Gaal [:Habber] from comment #26)
> > Question for everyone regarding displaying a link to the /android/all/ on
> > the Android product page: 
> > Is there a list of countries where we know users don't always have access to
> > the play store? I'd like to consider only displaying this link to users for
> > whom it will be valuable and not a distraction from the google play store
> > link. When/where possible we want to drive users to download from the play
> > store because it contains screenshots and ratings and other information that
> > is kept up to date.
> 
> Play store availability is device specific, not country specific-- there are
> a large number of android devices in the US that have no access to google
> play services because the manufacturer doesn't have the appropriate
> relationship with Google-- Amazon's "Fire" series of devices are probably
> the most popular example of this. UA sniffing is also a non-starter for this
> purpose, so we're going to have to come up with copy and placement that
> we're comfortable with showing to all users.

See also bug 1186022 as an example of where UA sniffing intended to help the user download Firefox is actually preventing them from getting the appropriate version for their device. I believe we should always provide a link to an "all" page in addition to the "smart" download buttons so that users can still find the version they're looking for in the unavoidable cases when UA sniffing fails.

Comment 29

[Kohei Yoshino [:kohei]]

+1 to add the /firefox/android/all/ page listing all links both to Google Play and CDN.

Comment 30

[Josh Mize [:jgmize]]

(In reply to Josh Mize [:jgmize] from comment #28)
> [...] I believe we should always provide a
> link to an "all" page in addition to the "smart" download buttons so that
> users can still find the version they're looking for in the unavoidable
> cases when UA sniffing fails.

Rather than waiting on any new copy specific to android, how about we reuse the copy we currently use on desktop? So for example on https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/channel/ under the desktop download button we see a link to "Systems & Languages" that goes to /firefox/all/, and under the Android download button we see a link to "Supported Devices" which goes to a SUMO article. I propose that we replace the "Supported Devices" link with a link to /android/all/ with the same "Systems & Languages" link text that we use for desktop, and on /android/all/ page itself we should be able to reuse the same copy as on /firefox/all/ for now. This way we can launch this page now in all locales, and if we decide to add new copy later we can do so behind the appropriate l10n tag.

:jbertsch, does this sound good to you?

Comment 31

[Jennifer Bertsch [:jbertsch]]

(In reply to Josh Mize [:jgmize] from comment #30)
> (In reply to Josh Mize [:jgmize] from comment #28)
> > [...] I believe we should always provide a
> > link to an "all" page in addition to the "smart" download buttons so that
> > users can still find the version they're looking for in the unavoidable
> > cases when UA sniffing fails.
> 
> Rather than waiting on any new copy specific to android, how about we reuse
> the copy we currently use on desktop? So for example on
> https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/channel/ under the desktop download
> button we see a link to "Systems & Languages" that goes to /firefox/all/,
> and under the Android download button we see a link to "Supported Devices"
> which goes to a SUMO article. I propose that we replace the "Supported
> Devices" link with a link to /android/all/ with the same "Systems &
> Languages" link text that we use for desktop, and on /android/all/ page
> itself we should be able to reuse the same copy as on /firefox/all/ for now.
> This way we can launch this page now in all locales, and if we decide to add
> new copy later we can do so behind the appropriate l10n tag.
> 
> :jbertsch, does this sound good to you?

I'll review with Mike Han, the mobile PMM.

Comment 32

[Paul [:pmac] McLanahan]

(In reply to Jennifer Bertsch [:jbertsch] from comment #31)
> I'll review with Mike Han, the mobile PMM.

Honestly I'd be nice if you could just use your power as Product Manager and content module owner and make a call here. This bug has been open for nearly 4 years. Let's do something and then iterate based on feedback.

Comment 33

[Jennifer Bertsch [:jbertsch]]

I spoke with Mike Han.  He believes the "Supported Devices" link is important to retain.

He recommends adding a "Systems & Languages" link to the General Release and Beta Firefox for Android buttons.  Let's insert that copy between "Supported Devices" and "What's New."

Thank you for your patience in this matter.

PS  I realize that we don't use the standard download buttons everywhere on the site.  I will add reviewing the links required around download buttons to the "Download button overhaul" item on the 2015 Bedrock roadmap https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WJJB0LeUkYx5pIPNkA8HI623VkaY9Jvi4fFVuLxwJxI/edit

Comment 34

[[github robot]]

Commits pushed to master at https://github.com/mozilla/bedrock

https://github.com/mozilla/bedrock/commit/12cd348f1a8696de135a0c7ee8eeb65454b6cec6
Bug 686489 new download fennec apk download page

https://github.com/mozilla/bedrock/commit/8feeed1a65f1d395803b75c35afd2557de3684b9
Merge pull request #3302 from malena/bug-686489-new-apk-download-page

Bug 686489 new download fennec apk download page