Bug 570815 (qfwidget)

Make Quickfilter optionally available as simple searchbox widget+stickypin (with filter criteria in persistent popup panel &/or dropdown; toolbar customization)

NEW
Unassigned

Status

enhancement
9 years ago
5 years ago

People

(Reporter: tanstaafl, Unassigned)

Tracking

(Depends on 2 bugs, Blocks 3 bugs, {helpwanted})

Dependency tree / graph
Bug Flags:
wanted-thunderbird +

Firefox Tracking Flags

(Not tracked)

Details

(Whiteboard: uiwanted; to enable xul demos, see comment 122)

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(12 attachments, 1 obsolete attachment)

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(Reporter)

Description

9 years ago
User-Agent:       Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.3) Gecko/20100401 Firefox/3.6.3
Build Identifier: 3.0.4

Bug 545955 introduces a new Quicksearch Toolbar, but apparently loses the old/original QuickSearch Filter box that can be moved to any toolbar.

I do not want or need a new toolbar that takes up more vertical space in my UI. I use a netbook, and vertical screen real estate is precious.

I do like the sticky button for it, but that is all it needed, why duplicate all of the stuff from the 'View' selector as buttons? I don't need or want those.

Reproducible: Always

Steps to Reproduce:
Upgrade to 3.1
Actual Results:  
Old QuickSearch box is gone, totally replaced by a new Quicksearch Toolbar.

Expected Results:  
I want to be able to have the QuickSearch filter on my menu bar.
(Reporter)

Comment 1

9 years ago
Ok, this is getting worse...

I was just helping one of my users that I have upgraded to 3.1 (now on rc2) because she was hitting bug 570804 constantly - the new 3.1 totally fixes it, so good work there!

Anyway, she was complaining that her searches weren't producing correct results. I finally realized it was because she didn't have 'recipient' clicked/enabled - but it took me a few minutes to even notice those new options just below the search box.

<sigh>

All the Quickfilter search box needed was the little sticky thumbtack added to it. Everything else worked just fine, although I do kind of like the idea of being able to individually select which of the criteria is enabled.

This is going to be a *huge* UI irritant for some of us. Every time I go into my rc2 install now it's like fingernails down a chalkboard, and I don't see it getting any better with time.

I honestly don't know if I'll be able to stand it, but I'm not sure what my options are... <sigh>

Why? Why did you have to go and convert a nice, neat, simple little search box into a huge monstrosity of a toolbar? This was totally and absolutely unnecessary.

Please, restore it to the way it was, but just with the little sticky pin next to it, and by all means include the ability to individually select the criteria, and I have an idea on how to do that very unobtrusively:

Show the currently selected criteria 'greyed out' inside the searchbox, like 3.0 does now, but when the dropdown/select box widget is clicked, instead of dropping down the pre-defined list of criteria combinations, drop down the *new* list of individual options just like they are now, so the user can click/select/deselect whichever ones they want active - then when the user clicks anywhere else on the GUI, the drop down goes away.

Please?
(Reporter)

Comment 2

9 years ago
By the way - I didn't really make it clear, I'm not asking to kill the new toolbar - I'm just asking to *bring* *back* the ability to have the old quickfilter search box that can be moved to any other toolbar.

So, basically, an *optional* way to use the new quickfilter...

Maybe a 'Tools > Options > Advanced > General' option with a radio button or toggle choice of:

[ ] Use Quickfilter Toolbar
[ ] Use Quickfilter Searchbox Only

The toolbar takes up almost an inch of vertical real estate, which is a lot on a small screen...

I hope someone is listening.

By the way - most if not all of the performance bugs as well as the intermittent local cache/offline store corruption bugs seem to have been squashed, so in spite of this new GUI irritation, I will definitely be upgrading.

Question: Is the new Quickfilter toolbar coded in such a way (ie, are the hooks there) so that this could be fixed by an extension?
(Reporter)

Comment 3

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #2)
> Question: Is the new Quickfilter toolbar coded in such a way (ie, are the hooks
> there) so that this could be fixed by an extension?

Anyone?

Comment 4

9 years ago
I can't answer your question, but...

(In reply to comment #0)
> I do not want or need a new toolbar that takes up more vertical space in my UI.
> I use a netbook, and vertical screen real estate is precious.

Did you notice you can hide the toolbar with a single click in the tab strip? It's the button with a looking glass on the right. You don't even have to click the button to temprorarily unhide it - just use Ctrl+F

> I do like the sticky button for it, but that is all it needed, why duplicate
> all of the stuff from the 'View' selector as buttons? I don't need or want
> those.

I'm not the person who designed this feature, but my excuses could be:
* view selector is ugly, doesn't allow combining filters and is hidden by default.
* making all filter buttons act as a widget placeable in the main toolbar would make this widget way too wide. I run Tb full-screen on a 1440px wide screen, have only one non-default buttons, and there isn't much free space in the toolbar left. Certainly not for the whole filter widget
* the menu bar may be hidden by default in future
* the quick filter bar is easy to show/hide


By the way, you may want to avoid adding comments not directly related to the bug you're commenting. It makes the comments (and the whole bug page) longer, and less attractive to read. ;)

Comment 5

9 years ago
I don't have time to understand or comment on all the details of this (including the details that don't belong here or elsewhere), but the bottomline of this bug uncovers a real problem that should be given attention. The summary isn't very good right now (sounds more radical than the actual proposals), which unfortunately distracts from the real problem of insufficient customizability after the introduction of new quick filter bar. After morphing the summary, IMO this could and should be confirmed.
(Reporter)

Comment 6

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #4)
> I can't answer your question, but...
> 
> (In reply to comment #0)
>> I do not want or need a new toolbar that takes up more vertical space in
>> my UI. I use a netbook, and vertical screen real estate is precious.

> Did you notice you can hide the toolbar with a single click in the tab
> strip? It's the button with a looking glass on the right. You don't even
> have to click the button to temprorarily unhide it - just use Ctrl+F

Sorry, I don't see that button anywhere... ?

>> I do like the sticky button for it, but that is all it needed, why duplicate
>> all of the stuff from the 'View' selector as buttons? I don't need or want
>> those.

> I'm not the person who designed this feature, but my excuses could be:
> * view selector is ugly,

What is most ugly to me is wasted space.

That said, if I could quickly toggle the Quickfilter toolbar on/off with the keyboard, that would be better than what I have now.

> doesn't allow combining filters

So apparently you didn't read all of comment 1 (read the last paragraph)? It addresses this...

> and is hidden by default.

So fix it and make it not hidden by default...

> * making all filter buttons act as a widget placeable in the main toolbar would
> make this widget way too wide.

So make the individual buttons moveable... The only button I need is the Read/Unread button, the rest is totally wasted space for me - not oto mention the huge amount of space between the Sticky Pin/buttons on the left side of the toolbar and the searchbox on the Right.

> I run Tb full-screen on a 1440px wide screen,

So you must hate the huge amount of empty space between the sticky pin/buttons and the searchbox?

> have only one non-default buttons, and there isn't much free space in the
> toolbar left. Certainly not for the whole filter widget

I don't want the whole widget - just the searchbox/sticky pin, and maybe the Read/Unread button.

> * the menu bar may be hidden by default in future

I have mine hidden now, and it auto-shows on mouse-over of the Window Title bar using the HideMenuBar extension.

> * the quick filter bar is easy to show/hide

Not for me... I'd really like to know how to do this.

Comment 7

9 years ago
> Not for me... I'd really like to know how to do this.

Do you ever read the responses you get? I've pointed you to the respective keyboard shortcuts when the tab bar is hidden 10 days ago already in your thread, http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1924589 (and as
you confirmed that it worked, I assume you also read and tried it).
(Reporter)

Comment 8

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #7)
>> Not for me... I'd really like to know how to do this.

> Do you ever read the responses you get?

Yes I do... why do you ask?

> I've pointed you to the respective
> keyboard shortcuts when the tab bar is hidden 10 days ago already in your
> thread, http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1924589 (and as
> you confirmed that it worked, I assume you also read and tried it).

Actually, I didn't 'confirm' it, I simply said that it was better, but still not what I was after. I wasn't on my computer at the time to test it...

I never came back and added a new comment after actually trying it stating that it is very problematic because CTRL-F is shared with the Find toolbar as well - sorry, this functionality is just way too all over the place to be usable by normal users.

Making the new Quickfilter+Sticky pin available as a separate searchbox that can be placed on any toolbar, and with the new customizable drop-down/select box for the search criteria would totally solve all of these problems, because I already have a perfectly functional auto hide/show menu bar where I put everything else (and which is where I had the old Quickfilter searchbox).
(Reporter)

Updated

9 years ago
Summary: Bring back original QuickSearch filter that can be moved to different toolbar → Make new Quickfilter Toolbar optionally available as a simple searchbox+stickypin with new selectable search criteria in persistent drop-down
(Reporter)

Comment 9

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #5)
> The summary isn't very good right now (sounds more radical than the actual
> proposals), which unfortunately distracts from the real problem of
> insufficient customizability after the introduction of new quick filter
> bar. After morphing the summary, IMO this could and should be confirmed.

Just changed it - any better?

Comment 10

9 years ago
I agree with comment #5 that being able to somehow get a version of the quick
filter which fits on the regular toolbar (especially as a replacement for the
Gloda bar if it's not used) would be desirable. Thus, confirming RFE for the new summary, this looks specific enough.

Regarding the Ctrl+F conflict, it's unfortunate and handled in bug 564328, but currently the easiest way to get the quick-filter bar when it's hidden and the tab bar with the handle is not present.
Severity: normal → enhancement
Status: UNCONFIRMED → NEW
Ever confirmed: true

Comment 11

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #6)
> (In reply to comment #4)
> > I can't answer your question, but...
> > 
> > (In reply to comment #0)
> >> I do not want or need a new toolbar that takes up more vertical space in
> >> my UI. I use a netbook, and vertical screen real estate is precious.
> 
> > Did you notice you can hide the toolbar with a single click in the tab
> > strip? It's the button with a looking glass on the right. You don't even
> > have to click the button to temprorarily unhide it - just use Ctrl+F
> 
> Sorry, I don't see that button anywhere... ?

Check out the screenshot.

> That said, if I could quickly toggle the Quickfilter toolbar on/off with the
> keyboard, that would be better than what I have now.

That's Control+F. Though since it shares its shortcut with the search-in-message bar, its effect is sometimes fuzzy...

> So apparently you didn't read all of comment 1 (read the last paragraph)? It
> addresses this...

No, I didn't. Hence the last paragraph in my initial comment.
 
> > I run Tb full-screen on a 1440px wide screen,
> 
> So you must hate the huge amount of empty space between the sticky pin/buttons
> and the searchbox?

No, I don't care. Actually, I'd change it to have even more space on my windows PC, if I could, because on Windows, those filter buttons also have text labels by default, and there doesn't seem to be any way to toggle them off (Bug 575313).

Comment 12

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #11)
> Created an attachment (id=454550)
> Screenshot of the quick filter

Rimas, the toggle is hidden along with the tab bar when mail.tabs.autoHide is set to "true" and only one tab is present. Thus, the keyboard shortcut or going through the menus is the only way to get it back.

Comment 13

9 years ago
Right... Though I think it should also be fixed. Perhaps the toggle button should jump somewhere when the tab bar is not available?
(Reporter)

Comment 14

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #10)
> I agree with comment #5 that being able to somehow get a version of the quick
> filter which fits on the regular toolbar (especially as a replacement for the
> Gloda bar if it's not used) would be desirable. Thus, confirming RFE for the
> new summary, this looks specific enough.

Thanks! :)

(In reply to comment #6)
>> Did you notice you can hide the toolbar with a single click in the tab
>> strip? It's the button with a looking glass on the right. You don't even
>> have to click the button to temprorarily unhide it - just use Ctrl+F

> Sorry, I don't see that button anywhere... ?

Oh - you said Tab strip - I have the Tab bar hidden except when I go into my calendar (not all that often)... so, off to file another feature request to also have a Quickfilter toolbar button that can be moved to a different toolbar, just like the two calendar buttons now can be.

Although I'm at a loss as to why someone would choose to marry it to the tab bar???

> Regarding the Ctrl+F conflict, it's unfortunate and handled in bug 564328, but
> currently the easiest way to get the quick-filter bar when it's hidden and the
> tab bar with the handle is not present.

Understood... Thanks for the bug pointer, I'll go post a comment, although they seem to suggest the shared key combo is intentional... I'd much prefer at least an *option* to change it - maybe Alt-F for one and Ctrl-F for the other...
(Reporter)

Comment 15

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #13)
> Right... Though I think it should also be fixed. Perhaps the toggle button
> should jump somewhere when the tab bar is not available?

Nah, just another toolbar button that can be placed on any other toolbar, like was done for the calendar buttons is all that is needed...
It was asked on https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=545955#c117 whether this can be implemented as an extension.

Yes, it can be implemented as an extension.

Comment 17

9 years ago
Something along the lines of this bug might be especially interesting /
effective in combination with something along this one:

Bug 526221  - Pressing Enter after quicksearch filter terms should do global search (combine the best of quick filters and "Search all messages")

Iow, space-efficient users that prefer cleaner UI could
a) remove global search box from toolbar (currently possible using toolbar
customization)
b) add new quick search box to toolbar (this bug 570815)
c) use new quick search box to start global searches when necessary (bug
526221)
See Also: → 526221
(Reporter)

Comment 18

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #17)
> Iow, space-efficient users that prefer cleaner UI could
> a) remove global search box from toolbar (currently possible using toolbar
> customization)
> b) add new quick search box to toolbar (this bug 570815)
> c) use new quick search box to start global searches when necessary (bug
> 526221)

I like it... as long as it didn't have any of the old problems of switching to a GLODA search by mistake...

As much as I screamed about GLODA when I first encountered it, I tested it at home and it does work well even on large mail stores once everything is fully sync'd...

Also, I'd like a way to disable this [Enter] key behavior (so that if the Enter key is pressed it does nothing), because some of our users consistently hit enter when using the Quickfilter, no matter how many times I tell them they don't need to, which brings inconsistent results when messages are not fully sync'd (which ours generally aren't, because of the size of the IMAP stores).

Comment 19

9 years ago
I have no idea what "GLODA" is but am very frustrated with the new quick search in 3.1.  This bug report seems to cover my problem and provide a reasonable solution.  I would like to simply be able to search for all emails from "Smith" and have them listed just as they were in version 3.0.5.  With 3.1, I can find no way to do this.

Fix this PLEASE!
(Reporter)

Comment 20

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #19)
> I have no idea what "GLODA" is

It is the new Global Search functionality in 3.x

In 3.0.x it was accessed through a *combined* local/Global searchbox, and which search type depended on if you were searching 'All Messages' (which resulted in a GLODA search) or one of the specific criteris, which resulted in a 'Quickfilter' of just the selected folder.

> but am very frustrated with the new quick search in 3.1.  This bug report
> seems to cover my problem and provide a reasonable solution.  I would like
> to simply be able to search for all emails from "Smith" and have them
> listed just as they were in version 3.0.5.  With 3.1, I can find no way to
> do this.

You use the Quickfilter toolbar. It is more stable/reliable than the old combined searchbox, because the old/combined searchbox was buggy, and would sometimes perform GLODA searches when it wasn't set to 'All Messages'...

Also, I really like the new toggleable 'sticky pin', that lets you apply the current search criteria to different folders when they are clicked/selected.

This new search capability would be *perfect* if it was available in a simple searchbox (without the toolbar baggage), but with the new features (sticky-pin, and new selectable/individual criteria from a persistent drop-down select box), per this Feature Request.

Comment 21

9 years ago
The new 3.1 search bar is horrendous.  The one before 3.1 worked great and did what it needed to do efficiently.
(Reporter)

Comment 22

9 years ago
@Mike

So VOTE for this bug! ;)

Comment 23

9 years ago
voted!

Comment 24

9 years ago
Charles & friends, if you want this to move forward, I think we need a clearer picture of the desired UI. Iow, please provide at least two mockup screenshots (before and after typing a search word into the customizable quicksearch wigdet requested by this bug) to show what "selectable search criteria in persistent drop-down" should look like when the simple qs input widget is on the main toolbar (I suppose). It's certainly solvable, but right now I am having trouble envisioning the whole thing.
Whiteboard: uiwanted

Comment 25

9 years ago
Honestly, what you guys had in versions prior to 3.1 was awesome.  It worked as expected and did what I needed it to do.  Now I type something in that new top search bar and it opens a new tab and then if I want to change the query, I need to close the tab, retype it, click here and there - it's just really kludgy.  So, the top search box is essentially useless.

Then there's the second search bar that wastes space and keystrokes.  90% of the time I'm searching the subject and the sender, which was the default for my inbox.  When I search sent, I believe it would remember that I wanted to search the recipient instead - this was awesome.  I type and get a listing of what I want - voila.  I change the query, it updates the results.  Hit the X, I get my full listing back.  Works just as expected and it's unobtrusive.

The previous setup was extremely effective and fast, and didn't waste real-estate - exactly what I needed it to do.  I'm not sure why you guys changed the functionality because you hit the nail on the head with the previous version.  I might try and figure out how to downgrade to the previous version as I use that search box *all* the time and the new one is unusable.

Comment 26

9 years ago
"I think we need a clearer picture of the desired UI."

Thomas, you can see the desired UI in action <a href=http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/thunderbird/all-older.html>here</a> and examine the source code for the desired UI <a href=ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/thunderbird/releases/3.0.6/>here</a>.

Comment 27

9 years ago
Yes and no - the new Quick Filter bar has a different logic but individual buttons for the search items which can be freely combined, and new criteria to search for which haven't been present in the 2.0/3.0 search options.

Thus, such a compact Quick Filter bar would need to compromise between limited space in the main toolbar and retaining the functionality. I could think of a drop-down menu similar to the folder-column selection, where you simply check all criteria that you want to apply and then hit return to let it run. That menu would only be needed if you want to change the selection.

That should be intuitive enough, but some ASCII-art mockup may indeed be useful to get a better idea what this could look like and how to arrange the items within the drop-down menu.

Comment 28

9 years ago
Honestly, you guys just messed up on the new version.  You did a great job with the older versions - this "upgrade" went in the wrong direction.
(Reporter)

Comment 29

9 years ago
@Mike - please stop spamming this bug with repetetive complaints - it isn't helpful.
(Reporter)

Comment 30

9 years ago
@Mike - please stop spamming this bug with repetetive complaints - it isn't helpful.
(Reporter)

Comment 31

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #24)
> Charles & friends, if you want this to move forward, I think we need a
> clearer picture of the desired UI. Iow, please provide at least two
> mockup screenshots (before and after typing a search word into the
> customizable quicksearch wigdet requested by this bug) to show what
> "selectable search criteria in persistent drop-down" should look like
> when the simple qs input widget is on the main toolbar (I suppose).
> It's certainly solvable, but right now I am having trouble envisioning
> the whole thing.

I'll try - but I honestly think a more precise description/explanation
will suffice...

I'll try one more time, then if you still can't see what I'm talking about I'll see if I can create a visual representation... so, try this...

First, picture the old Quickfilter searchbox in 3.0...

If you recall, it displays the current selection criteria as a 'hint' - ie, 'greyed out' *inside* the searchbox itself. The 'hint' 'disappears' as soon as you click inside the searchbox, then reappears as soon as you clear the searchbox.

The 'hint' also acts as a 'drop-down' selectbox (with the little 'down-arrow' just inside the left-hand side of the searchbox indicating so) that allows you to choose from pre-defined/hard-coded selection criteria - 'All Messages', 'Subject', 'Sender', 'Subject & Sender', etc... (I don't remember exactly what they all are or what order, but hopefully this is enough to jog your memory and to make it clear what I'm talking about).

Apparently there are problems caused by the fact that this searchbox is a combination of the GLODA search (the 'All Messages' criteria), and the current (3.1) Quickfilter searchbox (the others), depending on the criteria you had selected. The obvious problem is, GLODA searches all accounts/folders, while the Quickfilter function only filters messages in the currently selected view/folder.

Now... what this bug is asking for is simple: keep the GLODA searchbox and the new Quickfilter searchbox separate, but create a new option that will enable me to choose *either* the 'Quickfilter Toolbar', or a 'Standalone Quickfilter Searchbox'. This new option would not alter the current behavior of the Quickfilter Toolbar.

BUT - when in 'Standalone' mode:

1. The 'Stickypin' will be permanently attached/tied to the left (or right, I don't care) side of the searchbox, so it goes where the searchbox goes,

2. The 'drop-down' 'selectbox' for the criteria would be brought back, but instead of the pre-defined/hard-coded criteria, each one - 'Sender', 'Recipient', 'Subject' and 'Body' - would now be available individually,

3. When the 'drop-down' selectbox is being used to select which criteria should be included, it should be 'persistent' - meaning, when I click the mouse on it, it should drop-down the list of *individual* criteria (ie, 'Sender', 'Recipient', etc), and as long as I don't click anywhere outside of the dropped-down list, it should stay down so that I can click on any of the 4 items in the list to enable/disable them. A simple checkmark beside each one would indicate if it was selected (checkmark) or not (no checkmark). When I'm done, just clicking anywhere outside the dropped-down list would save the changes and close the drop-down.

As for what is displayed 'greyed-out' when the cursor is not focused in the searchbox - just let it be a calculated text field, where it simply displays the items that are enabled separated by commas, but with the last one separated by 'or' instead of a comma, and maybe followed by 'contains', ie:

Sender, Recipients or Subject contains

Was 'contains there before? I don't remember, but hopefully you understand what I'm talking about now - if not, let me know and I'll see what I can do for a mock-up...
(Reporter)

Comment 32

9 years ago
Sorry for the dupe by the way... the 'collision detection' window is a bit confusing when you haven't had your first cup of coffee yet...

Comment 33

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #26)
> > "I think we need a clearer picture of the desired UI."
> 
> Thomas, you can see the desired UI in action <a
> href=http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/thunderbird/all-older.html>here</a>
> and examine the source code for the desired UI <a
> href=ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/thunderbird/releases/3.0.6/>here</a>.

nice try :) I don't think we can just go back to the old UI. When developers introduced quick filter bar, they had their reasons - problems of the old implementation. These problems still apply, even though we might not be all happy with the new implementation. To name a few:
- Having quick filter and global search in one box was confusing and undiscoverable; it was difficult to use because you would have to change dropdown options each time between local filter and global search (unless we implement some sort of potentially difficult magic to distinguish between the two, like ctrl+enter and such, see existing bugs)
- the old system of picking a predefined quick filter set of criteria from dropdown list was perceived by some as very inefficient and bulky. To provide all options for everyone, you need a list of about 10 different options (wild guessing), too many anyway, considering that all we want is any arbitrary combination of just 4 criteria: sender, recipient, subject, body. That's why we now have the much easier system of secondary toolbar with those 4 criteria to toggle and fine-tune results after the fact.

So what we need is an UI and/or behaviour that avoids those old problems,
e.g. something like Charles proposes in comment 31 (which just arrived, so not yet covered here). But still, it's complex enough and easier to discuss with pictures of mockup UI which really help to eliminate problems and ensure we're all talking about the same thing.
(Reporter)

Comment 34

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #33)
> So what we need is an UI and/or behaviour that avoids those old problems,
> e.g. something like Charles proposes in comment 31 (which just arrived, so not
> yet covered here). But still, it's complex enough and easier to discuss with
> pictures of mockup UI which really help to eliminate problems and ensure we're
> all talking about the same thing.

It really isn't that hard - hopefully after you've read my last once or twice, you'll see it is really quite simple...

Comment 35

9 years ago
> - Having quick filter and global search in one box was confusing and
> undiscoverable; it was difficult to use because you would have to change
> dropdown options each time between local filter and global search (unless we
> implement some sort of potentially difficult magic to distinguish between the
> two, like ctrl+enter and such, see existing bugs)

Honestly, I never had any issues with it.  For me it was always very intuitive and I would change the pull-down filters accordingly and always get the results I wanted.  I would also show users in our organization how to use it and they picked it up really quickly.  The previous search bar seemed to work in a similar fashion to Mac Mail, if I remember correctly, and that's really the kind of common-denominator user you need to look at.  Kinda like the iPhone, it's limited compared to Android, but they're able to pull it off because most users never need the really advanced features.  It doesn't mean those advanced features shouldn't be available, it just means that they can be efficiently hidden as the power users will be able to find them while conveniently keeping them out of the way for the average user.

> - the old system of picking a predefined quick filter set of criteria from
> dropdown list was perceived by some as very inefficient and bulky. To provide
> all options for everyone, you need a list of about 10 different options (wild
> guessing), too many anyway, considering that all we want is any arbitrary
> combination of just 4 criteria: sender, recipient, subject, body. That's why we
> now have the much easier system of secondary toolbar with those 4 criteria to
> toggle and fine-tune results after the fact.

I'd be curios how many (and what type) of people were seeing it as inefficient and bulky.  I've been pushing Thunderbird out in our organization and my users have picked it up very quickly and really enjoyed the functionality of the quick search bar because I'd make sure to show them that it was there.  I bet none of them would even change the filters because by default it searched the needed criteria for 90% of the users.  They were not power users and don't want to futz around with advanced features as they wouldn't use them anyways so it fit the bill just right.

Right now the new setup is very good for a power user that really wants to get in there and dial in their search - but power users are usually the minority.  The average user just wants to type in their query and see a listing of messages that matched the filter.


I would recommend trying to figure out a way to unify the two search boxes because two is really confusing (my UI friend just said the same thing when I showed it to him).  Then if you really don't like the pull-down in the search box like in previous version, put a "criteria" button next to the search box so that they user can customize how their search is made.  The real-estate is there and it doesn't waste needed real-estate elsewhere.

Comment 36

9 years ago
Alright Mike, we are now sufficiently aware that you and your company were happy with the old combined quick/global search. It's easy to imagine others weren't, even if I am not aware of statistical evidence in numbers (and have commented on that problem elsewhere). Still, please accept that the new quicksearch bar is something that other users (not only power users) will find useful, as it exposes valuable functionality at your fingertips that was hidden or not even available before (don't forget the other filter buttons like tags, attachments, unread etc. on the filter bar). E.g., only new qf bar will let you filter for messages that do or do not have a certain tag (yes, and it's not perfect and leaves a lot to be desired).

As a volunteer in bug triage, I personally agree with some of the problems that you raised, but things aren't as simple as your comments seem to suggest. The proposal of unifying global and quick search has been around since the inception of global search (and we have open bugs for that); fact is, though, that they have just been deliberately separated. So new quick search bar is certainly there to stay. And we're exploring ideas here how to add on that and make it better.

(In reply to comment 31)
Charles, thanks for providing more detailed explanation of envisioned UI in comment 31, although a mockup screenshot says more than many words... *sigh*
I'll post one right now...

Updated

9 years ago
Attachment #454550 - Attachment description: Screenshot of the quick filter → Screenshot 1: Current quick filter bar with toggle button

Comment 37

9 years ago
Charles, is this the proposed UI of the simple quickfilter widget that you describe in comment 31?

Properties of Simple Quick Filter Widget with sticky pin

a) can be added to main toolbar using toolbar customization
b) is a separate widget independent of Gloda global search widget
c) is optional; does not replace/alter/interfere with existing quick filter bar (?) (although we'd have to clarify the behaviour when both are shown; where does Ctrl+F focus go to etc.)
d) has a sticky pin next to it
e) has a criteria dropdown that does NOT pop up automatically
f) the criteria dropdown, once opened, is a semi-permanent menu panel with the following toggle buttons (with checkmarks represented by _/ ):
_/ sender
_/ recipient
_/ subject
   body
Search criteria panel will stay open so that you can tick what you need,
then click anywhere else or press ESC to make it disappear.
(Same behaviour as "Edit this bookmark" panel from yellow star in FF).
(Reporter)

Comment 38

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #37)
> Created attachment 459049 [details]
> Screenshot 2: Proposed UI of optional simple quick filter widget on main
> toolbar
> 
> Charles, is this the proposed UI of the simple quickfilter widget that you
> describe in comment 31?

That is it exactly! :)

> Properties of Simple Quick Filter Widget with sticky pin
> 
> a) can be added to main toolbar using toolbar customization
> b) is a separate widget independent of Gloda global search widget
> c) is optional; does not replace/alter/interfere with existing quick
>    filter bar

All correct...

> (?) (although we'd have to clarify the behaviour when both are shown;
>      where does Ctrl+F focus go to etc.)

That's another bug/peeve of mine... having the Quickfilter share the CTRL-F shortcut with the 'Find Toolbar' at the bottom of the window for searching the message body is insane... it simply does not work in any rational manner.

Thankfully the keyconfig author fixed this by adding a way to make CTRL-ALT-F bring up the Quickfilter Toolbar, so no I can sort of toggle it with CTRL-ALT-F and ESC - awkward, but it works...

> d) has a sticky pin next to it
> e) has a criteria dropdown that does NOT pop up automatically
> f) the criteria dropdown, once opened, is a semi-permanent menu panel with the
> following toggle buttons (with checkmarks represented by _/ ):
> _/ sender
> _/ recipient
> _/ subject
>    body
> Search criteria panel will stay open so that you can tick what you need,
> then click anywhere else or press ESC to make it disappear.
> (Same behaviour as "Edit this bookmark" panel from yellow star in FF).

Perfecto! Thanks much Thomas for hacking that together, and glad to see I was able to communicate the idea well enough for you to get it...  :)
(Reporter)

Comment 39

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #38)
> (In reply to comment #37)
>> Created attachment 459049 [details] [details]
>> Screenshot 2: Proposed UI of optional simple quick filter widget on main
>> toolbar
>> 
>> Charles, is this the proposed UI of the simple quickfilter widget that you
>> describe in comment 31?

> That is it exactly! :)

Just one additional comment... seeing it visually like that (yes, I know its always better), the two searchboxes side by side was definitely weird looking, so, in response to the comments about bringing back the combined searchbox, why not just add a 5th item in the drop-down list (at the top, with a line sep between it and the others) called 'Global (All Accounts/Folders' that would do the same thing as the 'All Messages' did with the old one? I'm fine with this if it is doable - and most importantly *only* if it can be done without bringing back the old bugs that went with it.

This way you could remove the regular GLODA searchbox, but still perform one from the Quickfilter searchbox.

But, like I said, combining them is entirely optional to me... otherwise, I would just place them in separate locations - probably one on one end and one on the other...

Updated

9 years ago
Duplicate of this bug: 576114

Comment 41

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #37)
I like that menu too, but would add the additional left-button selectors to it:

> f) the criteria dropdown, once opened, is a semi-permanent menu panel with the
> following toggle buttons (with checkmarks represented by _/ ):
> _/ sender
> _/ recipient
> _/ subject
>    body
> --------------  (separator)
>    unread only
>    starred
>    known users
>    tagged
>    has attachment

so that only the "sticky" button is outside the box as it applies to all selection criteria. If you want to back-combine it with the Gloda bar as an option, there should probably be an item "Global Search" as the top entry disabling all other selections (graying out) if picked. I think that one motivation to have them separate was also to easier switch between Gloda and Quick-Filter searches without having to rearrange the drop-down menu all the time (especially given that they have substantially different functionality).

Comment 42

9 years ago
In the Bug 526221 was proposed add to the quick filter box the feature of open
a global search when press 'Enter' key. Originally in Bug 516543 I posted this
idea for TB3.0 like an enhanced to the drop-down search menu, and then to avoid
the two search and filter boxes that appear in the 3.1 betas.
Now I wrote and extension to try do this: 'Unified search'
https://addons.mozilla.org/es-ES/thunderbird/addon/187593/
Is not fully finished and need some enhancements but is usable to test some
ideas, with options to enable/disable each thing, looking for the best
solution.
When I learn more about How work at background the filter system I expect can
try to implement a button like the proposed here in a extra customizable
button, but is in the to-do list for now.
(Reporter)

Comment 43

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #41)
> (In reply to comment #37)
> I like that menu too, but would add the additional left-button selectors
> to it:
> 
>> f) the criteria dropdown, once opened, is a semi-permanent menu panel
>> with the following toggle buttons (with checkmarks represented by _/ ):
>> _/ sender
>> _/ recipient
>> _/ subject
>>    body
>> --------------  (separator)
>>    unread only
>>    starred
>>    known users
>>    tagged
>>    has attachment
> 
> so that only the "sticky" button is outside the box as it applies to all
> selection criteria.

Excellent idea... :)

> If you want to back-combine it with the Gloda bar as an
> option, there should probably be an item "Global Search" as the top entry
> disabling all other selections (graying out) if picked.

Agreed (this is similar to my comment 39, except for greying out/disabling the other criteria, which you are correct it should do that too)...
Comment on attachment 459049 [details]
Screenshot 2: Proposed UI of optional simple quick filter widget on main toolbar

Nice mockup Thomas!  Having a visual representation makes it much easier to understand what's being discussed.  I think these questions are for everyone.

I like that you've included the filter modes on focus of the entry.  This is something we were very interested in changing from the old system.  Many people would forget what mode they were in and become very frustrated that they weren't finding the messages they were expecting to find.

I'm not sure I have a suggestion but I wonder if there is another way of showing the filter options other than using the pop up menu.  We lined these up horizontally so it didn't use more than one vertical line; however that would make checkboxes look awkward.  I'm just slightly concerned that reusing a popup menu for this would cause some confusion as we don't do that anywhere else.

Are you planning on handling the quick filter buttons: unread, attachments, tags, etc?  Not that you have to but I'm just wondering.

The show/hide system is an attempt to make sure that people understood when a filter was being applied.  This was especially a worry when implementing the sticky button which would persist the filter everywhere.  Perhaps we were not successfully, but that was the idea.  Thunderbird has, over the years, lots of reports of people unaware of a filter being applied to the current view.  Having the quick filter inside the message list was one way we could make this association.  I'm not sure how you'd do this in the toolbar but it must be possible.

Just as a future talking point, so it's easier to understand the discussion, here are the names of the systems as I understand it.

Quick Search - Thunderbird 2.0 (toolbar search/filtering system now gone)
Combined Search - Thunderbird 3.1 (quick search and gloda search where in the same search input, accessible via the drop down chooser)
Gloda Search - Thunderbird 3.1 (toolbar 'search all messages' only system)
Quick Filter - Thunderbird 3.1 (pop in toolbar for filtering current view w/ quick filters)

I just made up the "combined search" name but that's what it was.

Combined Search had issues that people couldn't find the old quick search system they wanted.  It suffered from similar 'hidden drop down mode' problems as the quick search did; people who switch to quick search of senders and not know how to get back to the gloda search.  We would need to examine those and other issues before going down that road again.
(Reporter)

Comment 45

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #44)
> Comment on attachment 459049 [details]
> I like that you've included the filter modes on focus of the entry.

Not sure what you mean by 'included the filter modes on focus of entry'?

> This is something we were very interested in changing from the old
> system.  Many people would forget what mode they were in and become
> very frustrated that they weren't finding the messages they were
> expecting to find.

By this do you mean that when you place the cursor in the searchbox, the 'mode' - ie, the currently selected criteria - essentially disappears? Yes, I can see that could be a problem for some people, but I just had an idea (the more I think about it the more I like it) of how to handle it...

When the user places the cursor into the searchbox, a persistent 'Tool-tip' could pop-up directly above the searchbox, saying something like 'Filtering on: Sender, Recipients & Subject' that would stay visible until the searchbox was cleared. This tool-tip could be highly contrasted to the rest of the window somehow (ie, red background with white text?), so the user wouldn't be able to miss it (unless maybe they were blind). This 'contrast' color should be configurable though, so people won't scream about how much they hate the color red... ;)

> I'm not sure I have a suggestion but I wonder if there is another way of
> showing the filter options other than using the pop up menu. We lined these
> up horizontally so it didn't use more than one vertical line; however that
> would make checkboxes look awkward.  I'm just slightly concerned that reusing
> a popup menu for this would cause some confusion as we don't do that anywhere
> else.

Don't see the problem, because there isn't anywhere else I can think of where using them like this would make sense. Here, it does make sense *if* the goal is to minimize space consumed by the searchbox but maximize its usefulness/utility.

> Are you planning on handling the quick filter buttons: unread, attachments,
> tags, etc?  Not that you have to but I'm just wondering.

rsx11m made exactly this suggestion in comment 41, and I followed up that I liked it... ;)

> The show/hide system is an attempt to make sure that people understood when a
> filter was being applied.

By 'show/hide system', you mean the show/hide of the entire Toolbar? I agree that it can be useful for people new to Thunderbird, and/or just for people who like toolbars and don't mind the space it consumes, but for people who dislike huge toolbars, it is just in the way - *especially* on smaller screens (netbooks). Having this 'optional' searchbox would make it possible for both use cases (and users) to be fully satisfied.

> This was especially a worry when implementing the sticky button which would
> persist the filter everywhere.  Perhaps we were not successfully, but that
> was the idea.

I understand, and think the first iteration was good, and the visual cues with the diagonal pink (at least they look pink to me) when there are no results help too, but I would take the idea a step further - have the lines there, but also have a "0 of the 5,348 messages in this folder match your current filter criteria." - or something like it - directly in the message list pane to eliminate any further room for confusion. You could even add a big 'Clear Filters' button in the message list pane.

Also - there could be an *optional* highly contrasted filter results line at the very top of the message list pane, saying something like: "25 of the 5,348 messages in this folder match your current filter criteria."

> Thunderbird has, over the years, lots of reports of people unaware of a
> filter being applied to the current view.

I think the above 'Tooltip' idea could completely resolve this problem?

> Just as a future talking point, so it's easier to understand the discussion,
> here are the names of the systems as I understand it.
> 
> Quick Search - Thunderbird 2.0 (toolbar search/filtering system now gone)
> Combined Search - Thunderbird 3.1 (quick search and gloda search where in the
> same search input, accessible via the drop down chooser)

You meant 3.0 for the combined search...? ;)

> Gloda Search - Thunderbird 3.1 (toolbar 'search all messages' only system)
> Quick Filter - Thunderbird 3.1 (pop in toolbar for filtering current view w/
> quick filters)
> 
> I just made up the "combined search" name but that's what it was.
> 
> Combined Search had issues that people couldn't find the old quick search
> system they wanted.  It suffered from similar 'hidden drop down mode' problems
> as the quick search did; people who switch to quick search of senders and not
> know how to get back to the gloda search.  We would need to examine those and
> other issues before going down that road again.

Yes, it had issues, but again, although the possibility of re-merging them, that is *not* what this bug is about... this bug is about simply having the *option* to use a reduced 'standalone' searchbox *similar* to the old combined searchbox, but that is limited to just the Quickfilter capabilities.

As I already mentioned, I'm not dead-set against the idea of re-merging them somehow, but that is not the subject of this bug.

Thanks for reading Band commenting Bryan, I really hope this idea can get some traction...
(Reporter)

Comment 46

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #45)
> When the user places the cursor into the searchbox, a persistent 'Tool-tip'
> could pop-up directly above the searchbox, saying something like 'Filtering
> on: Sender, Recipients & Subject' that would stay visible until the searchbox
> was cleared. This tool-tip could be highly contrasted to the rest of the
> window somehow (ie, red background with white text?), so the user wouldn't
> be able to miss it (unless maybe they were blind). This 'contrast' color
> should be configurable though, so people won't scream about how much they
> hate the color red... ;)

Maybe even better - instead of the 'persistent drop-down' that some people seem to really dislike, this 'tool-tip' could actually contain all of the different search criteria similar to how they are represented now on the Quickfilter toolbar, and *this* could be how the user selects the different criteria, with the same 'push-button' style used now (which I do like, by the way).

Since this is a 'tool-tip' that pops-up *above* the searchbox, it doesn't take away from the usable space below in the message list/preview panes, and automatically hides itself as soon as the searchbox is cleared (so no confusing hot keys/combinations needed).

I know this is my idea, but I really do like it much better even than the 'persistent drop-down' version...

Comments?
(Reporter)

Comment 47

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #46)
> Maybe even better - instead of the 'persistent drop-down' that some
> people seem to really dislike, this 'tool-tip' could actually contain
> all of the different search criteria similar to how they are represented
> now on the Quickfilter toolbar, and *this* could be how the user selects
> the different criteria, with the same 'push-button' style used now (which
> I do like, by the way).

So, forget the persistent drop-down.

When the user clicks into the searchbox, the persistent tool-tip would appear - again, *above* the searchbox (as wide as necessary) - containing the same thing the bar contains after the user starts typing into the toolbar searchbox:

"Fiter messages by: Sender  Recipients  Subject  Body  ICONS"

where ICONS are the icons (only) for the additional criteria (Unread, Starred, Contact, Tags, attachment), all of which have their own normal tool-tips that displays the labels, of course...
(Reporter)

Comment 48

9 years ago
Unless there are objections from those who have already expressed support for the persistent drop-down, I'll change the summary from 'drop-down' to 'tool-tip'...

Comment 49

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #44)
> Comment on attachment 459049 [details]
> Screenshot 2: Proposed UI of optional simple quick filter widget on main
> toolbar
> 
> Nice mockup Thomas!  Having a visual representation makes it much easier to
> understand what's being discussed.  I think these questions are for everyone.

Bryan, thanks for paying us a visit! :)))

> I like that you've included the filter modes on focus of the entry.  This is
> something we were very interested in changing from the old system.

Not sure I understand, but there has been no plan so far to show the filter modes dropdown automatically when user clicks into simple quick filter widget. But it's inspiration, maybe we can try something like that.

> Many people would forget what mode they were in and become very frustrated
> that they weren't finding the messages they were expecting to find.
> I'm not sure I have a suggestion but I wonder if there is another way of
> showing the filter options other than using the pop up menu.

For just showing them, a tooltip would suffice (as in my interactive mockup to come, see next comment). For changing them, we need a bit more. Charles proposes putting the controls on a tooltip-like floating pane, and show that interactive tooltip *on top* of our proposed simple quick filter widget which would usually sit on the right of main toolbar. So in fact there's empty space above that (the right of menu bar, and the window's caption bar (at least here on XP). Charles, that sounds like an interesting idea to explore visually... (or possibly just tweaking my upcoming xul mockup).

> Are you planning on handling the quick filter buttons: unread, attachments,
> tags, etc?  Not that you have to but I'm just wondering.

Yes, that's the plan. I'd still want to keep it as compact as possible.

> The show/hide system is an attempt to make sure that people understood when a
> filter was being applied.

FTR: I am sure that the new Quick Filter Bar of TB 3.1 meets a lot, if not all goals of good and modern UI design (and they have a lot of goals, if we are to believe bmo's keyword reference, as I was recently informed when I was daring enough to propose a new keyword, "customizability"...):

> ux-affordance, ux-consistency, ux-control, ux-discovery, ux-efficiency,
> ux-error-prevention, ux-error-recovery, ux-feedback, ux-implementation-level, 
> ux-interruption, ux-jargon, ux-minimalism, ux-mode-error, ux-natural-mapping, 
> ux-tone, ux-undo, ux-visual-hierarchy
(From https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/describekeywords.cgi#ux-affordance)

Seriously, quick filter bar is an excellent tool that has been carefully crafted to successfully avoid many usability problems of the past while adding valuable functionality at your fingertips. As such, it's great.

However, some personal observations:
- in 98% of all searches, I am not using advanced filter criteria (buttons on the left side of qfb, like attachment etc.)
- in 98% of all searches, I am not changing the fields when I search for some text. Subject, Sender, and Recipient is an excellent default. (Btw, we should look into comment 25's remark about the regression concerning Sent-box intelligent search fields behaviour).

Iow, in 98% of all searches, I'd be happy with something like the good old quick search box, where you can just "find as you type". Which means all the rest of the great UI is practically just taking up valuable space from my message list and distracting (this bug). So far, I didn't think much about this. But it really came to me when I tried IagoSRL's addon  'Unified search' (comment 2; https://addons.mozilla.org/es-ES/thunderbird/addon/187593/). Wow, what am amazing feeling of SPACE and natural simplicity in the message list! Just great.

It's hard to tell how many people would feel the same, but let's not forget that TB3 introduced the new mail header which also eats up a lot of space, and the amount of interest in compact header. Bottom line of these wonderful stories is that I think it might be in our best interest to safeguard against a possible scenario where a potentially big number of users might be unhappy about the space aspects of our otherwise excellent design choices. This bug, if done well, could provide a highly usefull fallback option for people with a preference or need for a more compact UI. Just as Charles and others here, I'd love to see this bug gain momentum. I'll contribute to that end in my next comment with another mockup.

> Combined Search had issues that people couldn't find the old quick search
> system they wanted.  It suffered from similar 'hidden drop down mode' problems
> as the quick search did; people who switch to quick search of senders and not
> know how to get back to the gloda search.  We would need to examine those and
> other issues before going down that road again.

Bryan, trying to find a UI solution for this problem has made me (pain)fully aware of all the design benefits of the current implementation and the numerous problems it solves. In fact, I feel a bit like reverse-engineering... But maybe we (as users and contributors) have to go down that road ourselves before coming to accept the costs because of the benefit. Or maybe, creative collaboration will come up with something new :)) Probably (hopefully), it will be a bit of both! Let the bird fly!!!

Comment 50

9 years ago
What's better than just look? Look and feel. Enjoy!

(In reply to comment #41)
> (In reply to comment #37)
> I like that menu too, but would add the additional left-button selectors
> > f) the criteria dropdown, once opened, is a semi-permanent menu panel with 
> > the following toggle buttons (with checkmarks represented by _/ ):
> > _/ sender
> > _/ recipient
> > _/ subject
> >    body
> > --------------  (separator)
> >    unread only
> >    starred
> >    known users
> >    tagged
> >    has attachment

I created the XUL mockup to provide a more realistic experience of the proposed UI and behaviour. Guess I learned a lot of XUL and refreshed some JavaScript knowledge on the way...

This addresses the problem mentioned by Bryan of predictability and awareness of your current filter settings to some extent, in that the user will see a concise summary of the current filter settings as a tooltip when entering the search box via click or keyboard (onfocus event).

Personally, I'd be happy with what the interactive mockup shows, no more buttons needed. As explained in comment 49, less UI to me means more space and less distraction by things I rarely need.

Otherwise, Charles, it's your turn... just tweak it to show the tooltip on top and add some buttons... :))

I like the spirit in here.

Thomas
Attachment #460051 - Flags: feedback?(clarkbw)

Comment 51

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #50)
> Created attachment 460051 [details]
> Interactive XUL Mockup V.1: Simple Quick Filter Widget

Best viewed in fullscreen (don't use details link), or you'll miss the hidden "small print" at the bottom, and a smile :)
(Reporter)

Comment 52

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #49)
> For just showing them, a tooltip would suffice (as in my interactive mockup to
> come, see next comment). For changing them, we need a bit more. Charles
> proposes putting the controls on a tooltip-like floating pane, and show that
> interactive tooltip *on top* of our proposed simple quick filter widget which
> would usually sit on the right of main toolbar.

Erm... don't forget, this propsed new quickfilter widget will be just like the old searchbox - a standalone widget that can be placed anywhere, on any toolbar, so please lets not assume anything about 'where' it will be placed...

Also - I just used the word 'tool-tip' to describe my latest idea, and that may have been a bad choice of words. I've never seen a tool-tip that was interactive, so, think more of like a persistent pop-up 'menu' that opens *above* the searchbox instead of below, and with the list choices offered *horizontally*, instead of vertically - but this list would act just like the current choices on the toolbar - ie, interactive 'push-buttons'...

> So in fact there's empty space
> above that (the right of menu bar, and the window's caption bar (at least here
> on XP). Charles, that sounds like an interesting idea to explore visually...
> (or possibly just tweaking my upcoming xul mockup).

I see above where you suggest I tweak it - I honestly would *love* it if I could - but my programming skills are grossly inadequate - I can barely hack together a working bash script, and wouldn't know a XUL from a XOOL... ;)

> FTR: I am sure that the new Quick Filter Bar of TB 3.1 meets a lot, if not all
> goals of good and modern UI design (and they have a lot of goals, if we are to
> believe bmo's keyword reference, as I was recently informed when I was daring
> enough to propose a new keyword, "customizability"...):

Agreed, with one exception -and honestly, it is the only thing I really 'dislike' about it, other than how much space it consumes, and it happens on larger monitors - there is just too much space between the searchbox, and the 'other' criteria (read/unread, attachments, etc) to the left...

> Seriously, quick filter bar is an excellent tool that has been carefully
> crafted to successfully avoid many usability problems of the past while adding
> valuable functionality at your fingertips. As such, it's great.

While I really disliked it at first, I actually agree with this now, except that *personally* I would still much prefer the standalone widget being discussed here as an option.

> However, some personal observations:
> - in 98% of all searches, I am not using advanced filter criteria (buttons on
> the left side of qfb, like attachment etc.)

+1

> - in 98% of all searches, I am not changing the fields when I search for some
> text. Subject, Sender, and Recipient is an excellent default. (Btw, we should
> look into comment 25's remark about the regression concerning Sent-box
> intelligent search fields behaviour).

+1

> Iow, in 98% of all searches, I'd be happy with something like the good old
> quick search box, where you can just "find as you type".

Precisely. Since the advanced stuff on the toolbar that takes up all the room is only used 2% of the time (less probably in my case) by most people, it just isn't an efficient use of space.
(Reporter)

Comment 53

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #50)
> Created attachment 460051 [details]
> Interactive XUL Mockup V.1: Simple Quick Filter Widget
> 
> What's better than just look? Look and feel. Enjoy!

Very nice Thomas! Man, I wish I could code this kind of thing in XUL (or anything for that matter)...

> Personally, I'd be happy with what the interactive mockup shows, no more
> buttons needed. As explained in comment 49, less UI to me means more space and
> less distraction by things I rarely need.

I'd be happy with this one too... once it is done, I imagine it would be much easier to tweak it (ie, convert it to the horizontal list *above* the searchbox, instead of a vertical list below it)...

> Otherwise, Charles, it's your turn... just tweak it to show the tooltip on top
> and add some buttons... :))

I really, really wish I could... ;) I'll have to settle for just verbal descriptions, and possibly some simple graphical depictions (edited screenshots)...

Ok dang it, if you can take the time, so can I... done, and will upload after this comment...

> I like the spirit in here.

+1 :)

Comment 54

9 years ago
Comment on attachment 460051 [details]
Interactive XUL Mockup V.1: Simple Quick Filter Widget

I agree, this is a great demo and exactly what I imagined!  :-)
(Reporter)

Comment 55

9 years ago
Ok, here is a quick-n-dirty of what I'm talking about...

The user clicks into this new standalone Quicksearch/filter box, and the 'Filter messages by:...' horizontal combination 'indicator/selector' pops-up, and stays up, until the searchbox is cleared (user clicks on a different folder (if sticky pin is not pushed) or clicks on the 'x' to clear the searchbox).

This makes it easy to see what is currently selected, and easy to change it if desired, with a single click (as opposed to having to click in the drop-down selector first, then choose your selection(s), then click out again).

I couldn't find an easy/quick way to change the background/contrast for the pop-up, and I do think it should probably look different than it does in this screenshot (although even as it is I think it would be pretty obvious to the user how it worked after clicking in and out a couple of times).
(Reporter)

Comment 56

9 years ago
Note: I don't think it is a ptroblem if it temporarily covers up any normal parts of the UI, because when I am searching, that's what I'm focused on - I'm not looking at other parts of the toolbar(s) to see what other button I may want to push (although on mine, it only covers up the window title bar because I have everything on the menu bar, which is normally hidden).
(Reporter)

Updated

9 years ago
Summary: Make new Quickfilter Toolbar optionally available as a simple searchbox+stickypin with new selectable search criteria in persistent drop-down → Make new Quickfilter Toolbar optionally available as a simple searchbox+stickypin with new selectable search criteria in persistent pop-up

Updated

9 years ago
Attachment #460171 - Attachment description: Depiction of standalone Quicksearch widget with persistent criteria selector pop-up → Screenshot 3: Another proposed UI for standalone Quickfilter widget with horizontal persistent criteria selector pop-up on top
(Reporter)

Updated

9 years ago
Attachment #460171 - Attachment description: Screenshot 3: Another proposed UI for standalone Quickfilter widget with horizontal persistent criteria selector pop-up on top → Screenshot 3: Another proposed UI for standalone Quickfilter widget with horizontal persistent 'filter state indicator'/'criteria selector' pop-up on top

Comment 57

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #50)
> Created attachment 460051 [details]
> Interactive XUL Mockup V.1: Simple Quick Filter Widget

Hey Thomas,
I like the mockup - a couple things:

- After pressing alt-down arrow, I would prefer to use the space bar to enable/disable different search criteria instead of enter.  Seems a little bit more intuitive using the space bar and then pressing enter should confirm the changes.

- Could the selected search criteria be mailbox-specific.  While it's not horribly necessary, it does definitely come in handy when it searches recipient instead of sender when switching to the sent mailbox.

- Have you thought of adding a "global" option to the dropdown such that a user can select that option should they want to search globally?  Most regular users would never know to click ctrl-enter

-

Comment 58

9 years ago
(I got a little happy with the send button)

- clicking outside of the search box should restore the "filter these messages" text.  Tab seems to do it as well, but I figured I would mention it.

Other than that, it looks pretty cool.  I would be a very happy camper if something like this could be implemented and we could unite the two search boxes.

thanks,
Mike

(sorry for the late reply - I'm on vacation so participation was difficult)
(Reporter)

Comment 59

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #57)
> - Could the selected search criteria be mailbox-specific.  While it's not
> horribly necessary, it does definitely come in handy when it searches
> recipient instead of sender when switching to the sent mailbox.

Since the default is both+Subject (Sender, Recipient and Subject), this is a non-issue I think...

> - Have you thought of adding a "global" option to the dropdown such that
> a user can select that option should they want to search globally?  Most
> regular users would never know to click ctrl-enter

As has been previously mentioned, this bug is NOT about recombining GLODA/Quickfilter functionality.

I wouldn't necessarily object to it, but lets stay on topic please.

Also, Mike - any comment on the much more utilitarian (in my opinion) *horizontal*+persistent 'filter state indicator'/'criteria selector' pop-up on
top as opposed to the drop-down/selectbox?

I'm surprised no one has commented on the fact that this would make it *much* easier to both see the current filter criteria *and* change them with a single click.

Comment 60

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #59)
> Since the default is both+Subject (Sender, Recipient and Subject), this is a
> non-issue I think...

Actually, I'd disagree.  There are times when I've needed to find messages that I sent to myself and searching both Sender and Recipient would return way too many results.  I think having it mailbox-specific would be helpful.

> As has been previously mentioned, this bug is NOT about recombining
> GLODA/Quickfilter functionality.

Since this discussion could directly impact how the search box changes, I think this is a relevant issue to mention.  We are all advanced users, but I'd say probably 70% of my users don't even know that you can click ctrl-s to save a document, let alone ctrl-enter to do a global search.  Part if this comes back to what is intuitive to the non-power user.

> Also, Mike - any comment on the much more utilitarian (in my opinion)
> *horizontal*+persistent 'filter state indicator'/'criteria selector' pop-up on
> top as opposed to the drop-down/selectbox?

I'm not sure what you mean by "horizontal+persistent 'filter state indicator' etc", but I do like what was displayed in the latest example that I commented on.
(Reporter)

Comment 61

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #60)
> (In reply to comment #59)
>> Since the default is both+Subject (Sender, Recipient and Subject), this is a
>> non-issue I think...

> Actually, I'd disagree.  There are times when I've needed to find messages
> that I sent to myself and searching both Sender and Recipient would return
> way too many results.  I think having it mailbox-specific would be helpful.

So for that use case - using my new suggestion - it requires just one click to unset 'Sender'.

Regardless - that would be a completely new bug, so please feel free to open one... ;)

>> As has been previously mentioned, this bug is NOT about recombining
>> GLODA/Quickfilter functionality.

> Since this discussion could directly impact how the search box changes,
> I think this is a relevant issue to mention.  We are all advanced users,
> but I'd say probably 70% of my users don't even know that you can click
> ctrl-s to save a document, let alone ctrl-enter to do a global search.
> Part if this comes back to what is intuitive to the non-power user.

Currently the 'CTRL-ENTER' to do a Global Search is not available, except as a beta/experimental extension.

So, again, please limit your comments to just the focus of this bug.

>> Also, Mike - any comment on the much more utilitarian (in my opinion)
>> *horizontal*+persistent 'filter state indicator'/'criteria selector'
>> pop-up on top as opposed to the drop-down/selectbox?

> I'm not sure what you mean by "horizontal+persistent 'filter state indicator'
> etc",

It is what is depicted in screenshot 3 - please take a look and read the description and let me know what you think...

> but I do like what was displayed in the latest example that I commented
> on.

You had directed your comment to Thomas, who did the first 2 screenshots and then the 'Interactive XUL Mockup'.

The last one - 'Screenshot 3' - is the one I uploaded that depicts the *horizontal*+persistent 'filter state indicator'/'criteria selector'...

Comment 62

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #61)
> So for that use case - using my new suggestion - it requires just one click to
> unset 'Sender'.

And if there is a new implementation of the search bar, as seems to be the discussion, I'd think it would be smart to discuss it's complete functionality.

> Currently the 'CTRL-ENTER' to do a Global Search is not available, except as a
> beta/experimental extension.
> 
> So, again, please limit your comments to just the focus of this bug.

If you look at the demo that Thomas posted, it was in there that ctrl-enter was suggested.


> The last one - 'Screenshot 3' - is the one I uploaded that depicts the
> *horizontal*+persistent 'filter state indicator'/'criteria selector'...

Yeah, I still like Thomas' suggestion.  It doesn't waste any space and functions pretty much like the versions prior to 3.1.
(Reporter)

Comment 63

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #62)
> (In reply to comment #61)
>> The last one - 'Screenshot 3' - is the one I uploaded that depicts the
>> *horizontal*+persistent 'filter state indicator'/'criteria selector'...

> Yeah, I still like Thomas' suggestion.  It doesn't waste any space and
> functions pretty much like the versions prior to 3.1.

? - how exactly does mine 'waste any space'? It is a pop-up, in the nature of a tool-tip. It might temporarily *block* part of the UI (toolbar and or window title bar) that is directly above where the user has placed the widget (which shouldn't be a problem for the reasons I posted), but it doesn't waste *any* additional screen real estate.

Most importantly though (as already outlined) is that it has two very real added bonuses that my original request (that Thomas was kind enough to create a XUL mock-up of) did not have:

 a) you're able to see at a glance what the current filter criteria are
    with zero clicks required, and 
 b) you can change them with a single click, as opposed to three clicks

Now to address the Off-Topic comments...

> And if there is a new implementation of the search bar, as seems to be
> the discussion, I'd think it would be smart to discuss it's complete
> functionality.

Apparently this is the confusion - this bug is *not* about 'a new implementation of the search bar' - it is about creating a standalone widget of the *current* Quickfilter toolbar.

Mike, please don't take offense, I've asked politely, but I am not going to argue with you about it. This is my bug, and I know exactly what I was requesting when I opened it, so I'm asking you to please respect that.

Do you not understand the concept of one request for one issue?

Do you not understand that the developers just might like the idea of this standalone widget, but NOT the idea of recombining the two searchboxes, so by insisting on combining the two you are reducing the chances of this bug being implemented? Or even vice versa?

Please feel free to go open a bug to recombine the GLODA searchbox and the quickfilter functionality if you are so inclined - and maybe I'll even go vote for it... ;)

> If you look at the demo that Thomas posted, it was in there that ctrl-enter
> was suggested.

And if you read all of the comments, you'll see multiple comments from me that while I was ok with the idea it wasn't the focus of this bug.

Thanks for understanding, and for your support for this bug...
(Reporter)

Comment 64

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #52)
> and wouldn't know a XUL from a XOOL... ;)

Well that was dumb... that should have read:

"...wouldn't know a XUL from a Xuul..."

Comment 65

9 years ago
Hi,
I was just pointed to this thread. Our whole chair at the university misses the old quick search box :-) While the new search bar is good for certain situations, we are using a very compact gui style due to some lower resolution PCs and Laptops, so the space wasting with new quick search bar is a very bad thing for us (even if we disable the tab bar as the body window still shrinks the moment the quick search bar pops up).

While I agree that the new search bar has more functionality, I think that (from googling on this issue and reading many other threads) many people would just be happy with the old quick search just as it was, as and additional field that can be moved into any toolbar.

Especially the dropdown selection was sth. we really appreciated. Dropdowns always save space over fixed buttons.

The filter as shown in the screenshot in #44 would be perfect, as it also reflects the new idea of combining selectable filters in any way (which, I admit, was limited to predefined selections in  TB 2).

Comment 66

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #17)
> a) remove global search box from toolbar
> b) add new quick search box to toolbar (bug 570815)
> c) use new quick search box to start global searches (bug 526221)

I think this should be the *default* behavior (for IMO obvious reasons) (although I would be thrilled if this were at least an option).
(Reporter)

Comment 67

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #65)
> The filter as shown in the screenshot in #44 would be perfect, as it also
> reflects the new idea of combining selectable filters in any way (which, I
> admit, was limited to predefined selections in  TB 2).

Hi Frank,

Please consider the new proposed UI as depicted in screenshot/attachment in comment 55...

The more I think about this, the more I like it... much better than the drop-down, because it is always visible while the searchbox is active, and hides itself immediately when the searchbox is cleared, no muss no fuss, no keyboard shortcuts or extra mouse clicks needed...

Comment 68

9 years ago
I'd prefer the dropdown box personally, because I like compact GUI elements close to each other and not spreading out wide. However, I could live with this solution, too, while voting in favor of the GUI from #44.

Anyway, reading through all this, is there any chance anything like this will be realized at all in thunderbird itself? Or will someone have to write an add-on for this? I wish I had ever learned how to write addons for Mozilla applications, this bug would be worth writing one...
(Reporter)

Comment 69

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #68)
> I'd prefer the dropdown box personally, because I like compact GUI
> elements close to each other and not spreading out wide. However, I
> could live with this solution, too, while voting in favor of the GUI
> from #44.

Ok, no worries then... I'm the exact opposite though, I'd much prefer the one from comment 55 because it is so much easier to use and provides more visual feedback while the searchbox is being used, but I could live with the one from 44 too... :)

> Anyway, reading through all this, is there any chance anything like this will
> be realized at all in thunderbird itself? Or will someone have to write an
> add-on for this? I wish I had ever learned how to write addons for Mozilla
> applications, this bug would be worth writing one...

I don't know - I too would take the time to write one for this bug if I knew how, but alas, by the time I learned enough to do so, TB would probably be at version 6... ;)

Comment 70

9 years ago
This one looks interesting:
https://addons.mozilla.org/de/thunderbird/addon/187593/

Except that it just pops up the normal quick search bar when entering stuff in the global search box. Now if that could be turned into a tooltip-like popup, I guess that would be your idea from #55? Just the location of the buttons?
(Reporter)

Comment 71

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #70)
> Except that it just pops up the normal quick search bar when entering
> stuff in the global search box.

Not according to the description - from the extension main page:

"- Global Search box: you can filter the folder from here when write -without need the quick filter box-, and enable/disable autocomplete suggestions."

So, that may indeed do what I would want, *except* - it requires GLODA to be enabled, so even if it does work as advertised, it still isn't usable for those of us who won't/can't use GLODA because we have multiple huge IMAP stores.

> Now if that could be turned into a tooltip-like popup, I guess that would
> be your idea from #55? Just the location of the buttons?

Functionally, yes, but I need a searchbox widget that will work with GLODA completely disabled.

Comment 72

9 years ago
I tried it, and ineed you can select what the GLODA box does, if it performs global search or filtering only. This can be fully configured. Thus, you can use the field in the mail bar only as local filter without global search.

And actually when you start typing in the search field the tab bar with the quick search bar show up, just without the field for entering search terms. 

Just try it and you will see that it can do what you want, except that it is very ugly that the quick search bar is used for setting filtering options, thus still wasting all that space...
(Reporter)

Comment 73

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #72)
> Just try it and you will see that it can do what you want, except that it is
> very ugly that the quick search bar is used for setting filtering options, thus
> still wasting all that space...

You don't understand... when GLODA is completely disabled (Tools > Options > Advanced > General > 'Enable Global Search and Indexer' is DISABLED/UNCHECKED), the Global searchbox is invisible/unusable - I can't even click inside it.

Comment 74

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #68)
> I'd prefer the dropdown box personally, because I like compact GUI elements
> close to each other and not spreading out wide. However, I could live with this
> solution, too, while voting in favor of the GUI from #44.

Ditto on the drop-down.  It's more intuitive and in-line with how other elements function... and the pop-up that shows the current filter seems effective.  Plus you don't have to move your mouse too far to change anything should you want to.  It's probably a comfort thing as most everything else is a drop-down.  And while it shouldn't be the overriding force to keep something a certain way, it shouldn't be ignored either.

Comment 75

9 years ago
Wait till you see the real horizontal floating criteria panel on top... it's way cooler than it looks on Marcus attachment 460171 [details]. Be patient. Next mockup(s) coming up.

Comment 76

9 years ago
"Coolness" should never be a criterion for design of user interface.
It's nice when people are impressed by how clever they are (I'm sure
that those responsible for the 3.1 "Quick Filter" are just overwhelmed
by their own awssomeness), but the point of the code is for enable
real users in the real world to perform real tasks hundreds of thousands
a time a day, and to do that quickly and with minimal annoyance and with
no surprises.

Functionality, simplicity and *consistency* go a long way further than
coolness and misguided innovation in UI.
(In reply to comment #76)
> It's nice when people are impressed by how clever they are (I'm sure
> that those responsible for the 3.1 "Quick Filter" are just overwhelmed
> by their own awssomeness)

Last week, in another bug, I asked you to review the Bugzilla etiquette guidelines before you commented again.  I'm disappointed to see that you've now posted what feels like a back-handed attack on the makers of a decision that you disagree with.  As I said in that bug:

> Because Thunderbird is a community effort, it's very important to us that it
> be an enjoyable place to get work done, even when that work involves making
> decisions that some people disagree with.  Every time a developer sees posts
> like the above, it makes Thunderbird feel like a less pleasant place to work,
> which results, over time, in us losing talented developers.

An ongoing discussion about Bugzilla etiquette is off-topic for this bug, so if you wish to respond to this comment, please do so in private email to me.  Thanks.
(Reporter)

Comment 78

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #75)
> Wait till you see the real horizontal floating criteria panel on top... it's
> way cooler than it looks on Marcus attachment 460171 [details]. Be patient. Next
> mockup(s) coming up.

After seeing your previous mock-ups, I for one can't wait to see it... :)

Many, many thanks for taking the time out of what I'm sure is a very busy day to do this Thomas...

Comment 79

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #73)

> You don't understand... when GLODA is completely disabled (Tools > Options >
> Advanced > General > 'Enable Global Search and Indexer' is DISABLED/UNCHECKED),
> the Global searchbox is invisible/unusable - I can't even click inside it.

With the addon installed you can. The global search box does not disappear but can be used for local filtering.
What I'm not sure about is the indexing which is what you don't want I guess? Doing active search over all accounts etc. was always possible with Ctrl-Shift-F if I'm right.
So I don't know if disabling the GLODA in the Thunderbird preferences while keeping it active for local filtering with the add-on disables indexing or not. How can I see that? Is there an index file/directory to check?
(Reporter)

Comment 80

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #79)
> (In reply to comment #73)
> 
> > You don't understand... when GLODA is completely disabled (Tools > Options >
> > Advanced > General > 'Enable Global Search and Indexer' is DISABLED/UNCHECKED),
>> the Global searchbox is invisible/unusable - I can't even click inside it.

> With the addon installed you can.

No... I can't... so either something is broken on my TB, or you are mistaken.

Currently, when I go to View > Toolbars > Customize, I can see the TEXT/LABEL for 'Global Search', but the white searchbox itself is invisible - and if I place it on the toolbar - yes, *after* I have enabled the Unified Search extension and restarted TB - it is still invisible/inaccessible.

In fact a month ago I opened bug 574962 about this very thing.
(Reporter)

Comment 81

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #79)
> So I don't know if disabling the GLODA in the Thunderbird preferences while
> keeping it active for local filtering

Eh?? How would you accomplish that? Its a single, global option - its either enabled or disabled, you can't have it 'disabled but active for local search' - or I'm totally missing something...

Comment 82

9 years ago
Before going "horizontal", I wanted to see how it feels to have a separate "Global Search" mode on the dropdown. It's similar, but not not identical in behaviour to what we had in TB 3.0. Use the variants-dropdown in lower-right corner to test different variants (A, B, C - in your comments, please mention attachment id, Mockup Version No, these letters and anything else needed for precise reference). We could argue it's just a larger scope, but still it's a different animal that comes out in a new tab. Please note: We can have a "unified" search box *without* the "Global search"-only mode on the dropdown: Ctrl+Enter will always trigger a global search, and if filter has no results, you can just press Enter again to "continue this search across folders".

Comment 83

9 years ago
Cool stuff! Thanks to Charles Marcus, who kept advertising his idea of having a floating criteria bar on top of the searchbox when you are in it, I couldn't resist giving that a try. It's all ****** hard to code, and takes ages, but the ultimate result was really rewarding:

Not that I absolutely need the floating thing all the time, but it looks and feels really neat and useful, and in the current design it's only there when you actually need it most: for defining your filter from the quick filter box. With the desirable double function of indicating and changing current filter criteria. All the rest from mockups V.1/V.2 still there for you to play with here in V.3 and see if there is any useful combinations, or just to compare.

Oh, and for those minimalists among us who don't like the float bar, I implemented an option on the dropdown (wicked, isn't it :)) to switch it off :)... We might come up with some more options to put into that menu.

Charles, did you want the float bar to hang around for as long as there is an active filter (unless user presses ESC) or just as long as the focus is in the search box?

Maybe we could turn the magnifier or an extra button into a master-toggle button that switches on/off the whole filter (incl. advanced) and visually indicates if any filters are present (esp. advanced filters that can be active even without text in the box). Like a dropdown-dual-menubutton where you get the criteria float bar when you click on the dropdown part...
I don't think I'm going to go through all the effort to make a working demo ;), but if we're going to move all the quick filter bar buttons somewhere else (floating bar, dropdown), why not make it look more like the bookmark popup in Firefox? Visually, I'm not a fan of the floating bar, and the dropdown made me pause for a second to question why it didn't go away when I clicked. People should already be familiar with the bookmark popup (it's also the basis of the edit contact popup), so we'd have some more UI consistency there.

Personally, I'm totally fine with the status quo, but I wouldn't be sad to see it change either.

Comment 85

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #80)

> Currently, when I go to View > Toolbars > Customize, I can see the TEXT/LABEL
> for 'Global Search', but the white searchbox itself is invisible - and if I
> place it on the toolbar - yes, *after* I have enabled the Unified Search
> extension and restarted TB - it is still invisible/inaccessible.

I guess you have configured the unified search accordingly to show the global search field instead of the quick search bar for local filtering? I've disabled the GLOBA in the thunderbird settings and the box disappears from the mail bar. But when I activate the global search box for local filtering it in the unified search addon it pops up again and can be used for filtering.

> Eh?? How would you accomplish that? Its a single, global option - its either
> enabled or disabled, you can't have it 'disabled but active for local search' -
> or I'm totally missing something...

The input field is just a GUI thing. The functionality behind it can be changed by an addon any way you like. If the indexing for global search is disabled you can still use the input field and take its input for applying local filters.Why should that be impossible?
(Reporter)

Comment 86

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #83)
> Created attachment 460747 [details]

This is *awesome* Thomas! I was actually going to suggest possibly a way to have both (drop-down and floating criteria panel) as options - but apparently you read my mind!

Only a few other things I can think of to polish this off, in the nature of some options/tweaks to allow the user to make it work exactly the way they want...

For one thing, add a little 'x' close box beside (to the right of) the 'floating filter criteria' as an alternate method for the user to 'make it go away' if they don't like it open all the time - this would accomplish the same thing as clicking/unchecking the drop-down, > Options > 'Show Criteria Panel' (not sure I like the 'label' = 'Filter Criteria Panel', but don't have a good alternative either)...

> Oh, and for those minimalists among us who don't like the float bar, I
> implemented an option on the dropdown (wicked, isn't it :)) to switch it off
> :)... We might come up with some more options to put into that menu.

I really, *really* like this 'combo' of these two ideas Thomas - and because you asked (and due to my natural tendency to complicate things whenever possible), I have two more options we could add to it - see below... ;)

> Charles, did you want the float bar to hang around for as long as there
> is an active filter (unless user presses ESC) or just as long as the
> focus is in the search box?

*Personally*, yes, I would, but I can see the argument against it too - so what I would suggest is instead of just having it enabled or disabled, have three different modes/options for it:

1. 'Never show Criteria Panel' - if the user just doesn't hates it and
    never wants to see it,

2. 'Toggle Criteria Panel' - it pops-up when the user first clicks into
    the searchbox, then goes away as soon as they start typing something
    (or click anywhere outside  - *and* will pop back up if the user
    *clicks* inside the field again (whether there is text in there or
    not, clicking inside the searchbox would simply toggle the display
    of it)two options to show it is disabled/unchecked, and

3. 'Always show Criteria Panel' - here the panel would always be displayed
    as long as the searchbox was active, meaning, cursor focus *or* it
    contained text (filter was being applied).

> Maybe we could turn the magnifier or an extra button into a master-toggle
> button that switches on/off the whole filter (incl. advanced)

I prefer the current 'x' on the right side of the filter as the way to clear it... except I think clicking that 'x' should *also* clear the 'advanced' filters (read/unread, etc)

Lastly, while you are including the 'Global Search' aspect of this as part of this bug request, I'd prefer to keep this aspect separate for reasons already explained to Mike - so, as long as it is understood by the developers that recombining the 'Global' search with the quickfilter search is *not* an integral part of this bug request, I'm ok with it being included in the mock-ups...

Many thanks for your efforts here Thomas, this is great... :)
(Reporter)

Comment 87

9 years ago
Wanted to comment on this part separately for obvious reasons:

(In reply to comment #83)
> and visually indicates if any filters are present (esp. advanced filters
> that can be active even without text in the box).

I think there should be some visual cue to always make it clear the current view is being filtered, something like I describe in my comment 45 - specifically:

***************** from comment 45

> The show/hide system is an attempt to make sure that people understood when a
> filter was being applied.

By 'show/hide system', you mean the show/hide of the entire Toolbar? I agree
that it can be useful for people new to Thunderbird, and/or just for people who
like toolbars and don't mind the space it consumes, but for people who dislike
huge toolbars, it is just in the way - *especially* on smaller screens
(netbooks). Having this 'optional' searchbox would make it possible for both
use cases (and users) to be fully satisfied.

> This was especially a worry when implementing the sticky button which would
> persist the filter everywhere.  Perhaps we were not successfully, but that
> was the idea.

I understand, and think the first iteration was good, and the visual cues with
the diagonal pink (at least they look pink to me) when there are no results
help too, but I would take the idea a step further - have the lines there, but
also have a "0 of the 5,348 messages in this folder match your current filter
criteria." - or something like it - directly in the message list pane to
eliminate any further room for confusion. You could even add a big 'Clear
Filters' button in the message list pane.

Also - there could be an *optional* highly contrasted filter results line at
the very top of the message list pane, saying something like: "25 of the 5,348
messages in this folder match your current filter criteria."

> Thunderbird has, over the years, lots of reports of people unaware of a
> filter being applied to the current view.

I think the above 'Tooltip' idea could completely resolve this problem?

*************************** end from comment 45
(Reporter)

Comment 88

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #84)
> I don't think I'm going to go through all the effort to make a working
> demo ;), but if we're going to move all the quick filter bar buttons
> somewhere else (floating bar, dropdown),

Hi Jim,

Maybe this wasn't clear to you, but this is simply an *alternative* to the current Quickfilter toolbar - it creates a separate, standalone searchbox widget that would behave according to the demos Thomas has created.

The existing toolbar would not be affected by the implementation of this bug in the least.

> why not make it look more like the bookmark popup in Firefox?

Not sure what you mean, but this bug is complicated enough without adding a third option... but by all means feel free to open a new bug/feature request...

> Visually, I'm not a fan of the floating bar,

If it can be coded the way Thomas' demo is, it would be optional...

> and the dropdown made me pause for a second to question why it didn't
> go away when I clicked.

In my opinion, having a UI widget make you pause for a second or two to understand how it works the first time you use it is simply not a problem - as long as it does only take you a second or two to figure it out, which I think most people would be able to do with this.
(Reporter)

Comment 89

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #83)
> Created attachment 460747 [details]
> Interactive XUL Mockup V.3: Simple Quick Filter Widget with horizontal
> floating Criteria Panel on top

Ok, now I'll get more specific with my comments after using the interactive mock-up...

1. Since this demo includes the possibility of also performing global searches from this searchbox, I don't think 'Quick Filter:' is exactly appropriate for the Criteria panel label text. Maybe it should just be 'Filtering on:' when in filter mode, and just say 'Searching All Messages' when in Global mode (so anyone using the criteria panel would still see what the mode it was in - currently, when 'Search all messages' is selected the criteria panel doesn't show at all)?

2. Sticky-pin should be toggleable at all times, and toggling it should not affect the display of the criteria panel.

I like how simply beginning to type causes the drop-down to disappear.

3. Not sure what is meant by this:

"Important: Even without 'Global search' toggle element, user can always do global search with CTRL-Enter, and 'Continue this search across all folders' option with second Enter in case of no results is also still there."

4. Unless... below you say "Just Enter will bring up a smile...' - do you mean that the filter will not be activated unless/until the user hits Enter?

I feel very strongly that the old behavior should be used, where it starts filtering as soon as the user starts typing (and pressing enter by itself wouldn't do anything) - although I think waiting for some minimal number of characters would be ok (2? 3?), since no one is virtually *ever* going to filter on just a single character.

Last - the 3 ESC's is cool, but many users may not 'get it'. That said, while I don't *think* it would cause any massive confusion, it *might* - so, maybe a 'Simple/Advanced' ESC toggle option, where Simple mode just causes it to act in the same way as if the user hit it 3 times (clears everything), and Advanced works the way you describe now?

Whew - I really didn't mean to complicate it that much... ;)

Thanks again Thomas!
(In reply to comment #88)
> (In reply to comment #84)
> > I don't think I'm going to go through all the effort to make a working
> > demo ;), but if we're going to move all the quick filter bar buttons
> > somewhere else (floating bar, dropdown),
> 
> Hi Jim,
> 
> Maybe this wasn't clear to you, but this is simply an *alternative* to the
> current Quickfilter toolbar - it creates a separate, standalone searchbox
> widget that would behave according to the demos Thomas has created.
> 
> The existing toolbar would not be affected by the implementation of this bug in
> the least.

I know that, but that shouldn't preclude discussion about better ways to present the filters. 

> > why not make it look more like the bookmark popup in Firefox?
> 
> Not sure what you mean, but this bug is complicated enough without adding a
> third option... but by all means feel free to open a new bug/feature request...

I mean like this: http://en.flossmanuals.net/floss/publish/Firefox/rsrc/Firefox/bookmarks/FFBookmark03_EditDialog_1.png . Obviously, it would have some differences, but this style of popup is already used for the "floating collection of widgets that you can play with", and using it would be more visually consistent.

Besides, I think it would be fairly silly to create a new bug to "fix" a UI element that hasn't actually been added to Thunderbird yet.
(Reporter)

Comment 91

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #90)
> (In reply to comment #88)
>> Maybe this wasn't clear to you, but this is simply an *alternative* to the
>> current Quickfilter toolbar - it creates a separate, standalone searchbox
>> widget that would behave according to the demos Thomas has created.
>> 
>> The existing toolbar would not be affected by the implementation of this
>> bug in the least.

> I know that, but that shouldn't preclude discussion about better ways to
> present the filters. 

Ok, fair enough...

>>> why not make it look more like the bookmark popup in Firefox?

>> Not sure what you mean, but this bug is complicated enough without
>> adding a third option... but by all means feel free to open a new
>> bug/feature request...

> I mean like this:
> http://en.flossmanuals.net/floss/publish/Firefox/rsrc/Firefox/bookmarks
> /FFBookmark03_EditDialog_1.png
> Obviously, it would have some differences, but this style of popup is
> already used for the "floating collection of widgets that you can play
> with", and using it would be more visually consistent.

Well, I could argue that Firefox still uses the old drop-down style widgets for some things (search engine management is one)... but really I think this is more of a styling issue - so, yes, you could just use the same style for the 'drop-down' as is used for the Firefox 'Edit Bookmark' widget. This would be ok for the *vertical (drop-down) version, but definitely not for the horizontal version (the one I like best now), because it needs to be just a one-liner.

Really, whatever is easiest and gets the job done is all I'm looking for right now.

> Besides, I think it would be fairly silly to create a new bug to "fix"
> a UI element that hasn't actually been added to Thunderbird yet.

I meant to create different bug to modify the QF toolbar in a different way, but yeah, now that I understand what you're saying better, it would be silly...
(In reply to comment #91)
> Well, I could argue that Firefox still uses the old drop-down style widgets for
> some things (search engine management is one)... but really I think this is
> more of a styling issue - so, yes, you could just use the same style for the
> 'drop-down' as is used for the Firefox 'Edit Bookmark' widget. This would be ok
> for the *vertical (drop-down) version, but definitely not for the horizontal
> version (the one I like best now), because it needs to be just a one-liner.

If the search engine management you're talking about is the dropdown that lets you pick a search engine, the difference is that clicking an item makes the dropdown go away. Obviously, you can't do it that way for this, since it would be annoying to have to open the dropdown multiple times to tweak the options.

The type of container (a XUL <panel> in this case) isn't going to dictate what the contents look like, and with the right styling, I think people will be able to figure out how it works more quickly just due to precedent (I know I would). I actually looked at the source and the horizontal version is a <panel> right now, which is good. I think it needs some more styling, though.

So, short version: I don't like the dropdown and I think it's confusing.
(Reporter)

Comment 93

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #92)
> So, short version: I don't like the drop-down and I think it's confusing.

Which means you could just use the panel. :) ... and since you know enough to view the source and tell it is a panel, you could probably re-style it to your liking too... ;)

Seriously though, styling is something I don't want to discuss here - there is just too much room for a never-ending argument.

That said - I have no problem with the drop-down being coded as a panel similar to the Edit Bookmarks panel, as long as the end result (functionality it provides) is the same... the dev doing the work can use their noggin and style it appropriately for the default theme...
(In reply to comment #83)
> Created attachment 460747 [details]
> Interactive XUL Mockup V.3: Simple Quick Filter Widget with horizontal floating
> Criteria Panel on top

pretty nifty.


Frank in comment #65:
> we are using a very compact gui style due to some lower resolution PCs and Laptops,

what resolution setting, and what age machines?
can  you post a screen shot?


Jim in comment 90:
> I mean like this: http://en.flossmanuals.net/floss/publish/Firefox/rsrc/Firefox/bookmarks/FFBookmark03_EditDialog_1.png

(the creativity occurring in this bug is great, so please don't take this comment as a knock on exploring options) That widget in FF works primarily because in the bookmark process it is a mere temporary need. But if it were to persist on screen it's akin to the old browse find text dialog (which still exists in SM iirc) which is quite annoying, because it never fails to obscure a part of the screen that I want to see.

Comment 95

9 years ago
Thanks for various positive/cooperative feedback on my Interactive XUL Mockup V.3 (Simple Quick Filter Widget with horizontal floating Criteria Panel on top, attachment 460747 [details])!

(In reply to comment #89)
> (In reply to comment #83)
> > Created attachment 460747 [details] [details]
> > Interactive XUL Mockup V.3: Simple Quick Filter Widget with horizontal
> > floating Criteria Panel on top

> 1. Since this demo includes the possibility of also performing global searches
> from this searchbox, I don't think 'Quick Filter:' is exactly appropriate for
> the Criteria panel label text. Maybe it should just be 'Filtering on:' when in
> filter mode, and just say 'Searching All Messages' when in Global mode (so
> anyone using the criteria panel would still see what the mode it was in -
> currently, when 'Search all messages' is selected the criteria panel doesn't
> show at all)?

a) I was wondering if we can just incude a "global search" toggle button on the horizontal bar, with the same behaviour as in the dropdown (all quickfilter options on criteria bar will be disabled in global mode), like this:

+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Quick filter: ## ## ## ## ## | Sender Recipients Subject Body | Global search|
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

b) Another possibility: Make the global search button act like a command button instead of toggling modes.
- normally you toggle filter buttons on bar to narrow down / expand scope
- at any time, after entering your search words, you could press "global search" command button for immediate ultimate expansion of scope in a new tab

> 2. Sticky-pin should be toggleable at all times, and toggling it should not
> affect the display of the criteria panel.

Sure (bug in the demo)
 
> I like how simply beginning to type causes the drop-down to disappear.

Otherwise it would cover the results. Horizontal panel on top avoids this problem.

> 3. Not sure what is meant by this:
> "Important: Even without 'Global search' toggle element,

c) Even if we do not include "Global Search Mode" as a toggle button on the dropdown or panel (i. e. no separate UI element for global search), we can still offer two ways of doing global searches from the filter box:
- Ctrl+Enter on any typed filter term (regardless of results or not) will do global search for that term
- when there are no filter results, we keep the current functionality that pressing Enter a second time will automatically trigger a global search on the failed filter words (in 3.1 indicated by tooltip "Continue this search across all folders: Press Enter again to continue your search for <search terms>").
If the first Enter wasn't pressed very fast after typing filter, it will trigger the global search already.
- in addition, we could have the global search command button explained in b) to convert a filter term into a global search
 
> 4. Unless... below you say "Just Enter will bring up a smile...' - do you mean
> that the filter will not be activated unless/until the user hits Enter?

No. Filter as you type will work, and Enter just applies it without the 1/2 sec delay. If there are no results, Enter will... see above. As usual, i.e. no different from current tb 3.1 behaviour.

> I think waiting for some minimal number of
> characters would be ok (2? 3?), since no one is virtually *ever* going to
> filter on just a single character.

d) I'd go for as few changes to current behaviour as possible, in our own interest.

> Last - the 3 ESC's is cool, but many users may not 'get it'. so, maybe a
> 'Simple/Advanced' ESC toggle option, where Simple mode just causes it to act > in the same way as if the user hit it 3 times (clears everything), and 
> Advanced works the way you describe now?

e) We probably shouldn't offer two different ESC models, too complex and confusing. Again, let's change as little as possible. TB 3.1 has 1st ESC for filter terms, 2nd ESC for advanced criteria is what we have now, let's keep it that way. However, we need the 1st ESC to hide the panel (which is default behaviour for panels, i.e. user's UI intuition), so that's one obvious extra ESC before we start removing filters.

f) A related problem I do see is that if we hide the panel on de-focus (which I prefer) or user has disabled the panel completely, there's little visual indication *around the box* that advanced filter is still applied. (There is visual filter indication through colors in the message list: blue shade for matches, yellow for ongoing filter, red stripes for no matches). I have been cracking my head how to indicate the presence of advanced filter in the box without using the panel, dropdown etc. Maybe there could be some color code inside the box, e.g. yellow gradient left-to-right underneath the magnifier icon, or yellow inside border. Maybe I'll add some simple mockups for that.

> Whew - I really didn't mean to complicate it that much... ;)

g) It's very important that the UI / behaviour doesn't get too complex:
- too much complexity / too many options can be confusing and counter-intuitive
- we need an intuitive default behaviour (which should be the focus of this bug)
- even justified complexity is harder to code, thus reduces our chances to actually get this implemented

If we want any options in primary UI, they need to be completely transparent and intuitive. For anything more complex, consider a separate tab in the main application options: e.g. Tools > Options > Display > *Search & Filter*

> Thanks again Thomas!

h) My pleasure, and a lot of time. I'll have to cut down on this.
Btw, I will *not* have the time to dig myself so deeply into TB internals that I could actually implement this. But the mockup code will certainly help to get this started. We should try and convince TB devs that this is needed as a fallback as explained in comment 49, last but one paragraph, so they might do it themselves. Otherwise, we'll have to find someone to code this.

Comment 96

9 years ago
Comment on attachment 460747 [details]
Interactive XUL Mockup V.3: Simple Quick Filter Widget with horizontal floating Criteria Panel on top

Bryan, your UI feedback on this would be appreciated. I added another interactive xul mockup of the proposed alternative Simple Quickfilter Widget so that you can actually try things out easily. It's a complement, not a replacement for quickfilter bar, targetted at users who have a preference or need for a more compact filter space-wise. Comment 82 for V.2 about the dropdown, comment 83 introduces V.3 with horizontal criteria pane on top. Plus detailed in-place comments on the mockups themselves. Bug comments are a bit lengthy, but the collaborative spirit in here is great.
Attachment #460747 - Flags: feedback?(clarkbw)
(Reporter)

Updated

9 years ago
Blocks: 583726
(Reporter)

Comment 97

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #95)
> a) I was wondering if we can just incude a "global search" toggle button
> on the horizontal bar, with the same behaviour as in the dropdown (all
> quickfilter options on criteria bar will be disabled in global mode),
> like this:
> +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | Quick filter: ## ## ## ## ## | Sender Recipients Subject Body | Global
> search|
> +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Yes, that was exactly what I had imagined... but... if you select 'Global search', then the 'Quick filter' label to the left is inappropriate - that was my point.

> b) Another possibility: Make the global search button act like a command
> button instead of toggling modes.
> - normally you toggle filter buttons on bar to narrow down / expand scope
> - at any time, after entering your search words, you could press "global
> search" command button for immediate ultimate expansion of scope in a new tab

Actually, I think you're right and that would be best.

>> 3. Not sure what is meant by this:
>> "Important: Even without 'Global search' toggle element,

> c) Even if we do not include "Global Search Mode" as a toggle button

<snip> ok, understood, thanks for the clarification.

> d) I'd go for as few changes to current behaviour as possible, in our own
> interest.

Agreed...

>> Whew - I really didn't mean to complicate it that much... ;)

> g) It's very important that the UI / behaviour doesn't get too complex:
> - too much complexity / too many options can be confusing and counter-
>   intuitive
> - we need an intuitive default behaviour (which should be the focus of this
>   bug)
> - even justified complexity is harder to code, thus reduces our chances to
>   actually get this implemented
> 
> If we want any options in primary UI, they need to be completely transparent
> and intuitive. For anything more complex, consider a separate tab in the main
> application options: e.g. Tools > Options > Display > *Search & Filter*

Agreed again - but one last question... you said:

> - when there are no filter results, we keep the current functionality
>   that pressing Enter a second time will automatically trigger a global
>   search on the failed filter words (in 3.1 indicated by tooltip
>   "Continue this search across all folders: Press Enter again to continue
>   your search for <search terms>"). If the first Enter wasn't pressed
>   very fast after typing filter, it will trigger the global search already.

While I grok the way this works, to me, what would be more intuitive is what I described earlier about additional visual feedback directly in the message list pane, that no one has commented on yet - specifically (I tweaked it a bit here):

*** ... have a "0 of the 5,348 messages in this folder match your current filter
criteria." - or something like it - directly in the message list pane to
eliminate any further room for confusion. You could even add 2 big 'Clear
Filters' and 'Perform Global Search' buttons in the message list pane.

Also - there could be an (optional?) highly contrasted 'filter results line' always displayed at the very top of/inside the message list pane, saying something like: "25 of the 5,348 messages in this folder match your current filter criteria.", whenever there is at least one result. ***

This way, there is never any question about whether or not a filter is being applied.

Just opened bug 583726 to formalize/track the above visual cue enhancements (also uploaded quick-n-dirty screenshot mock-ups)

>> Thanks again Thomas!

> h) My pleasure, and a lot of time. I'll have to cut down on this.
> Btw, I will *not* have the time to dig myself so deeply into TB
> internals that I could actually implement this. But the mockup code
> will certainly help to get this started. We should try and convince
> TB devs that this is needed as a fallback as explained in comment
> 49, last but one paragraph, so they might do it themselves. Otherwise,
> we'll have to find someone to code this.

I for one am *extremely* grateful to you for taking the time to do the mockups, as I think it will get the point across so much better than my lengthy/detailed description that some/most (all?) of the devs may not have taken the time to read/understand. I love the final result, and also hope someone with the skills and time will step up.

Updated

9 years ago
Blocks: tb-netbooks

Comment 98

9 years ago
Some further advanced comments on the proposed behaviour:

(In reply to comment #37)
> Properties of Simple Quick Filter Widget with sticky pin
> a) can be added to main toolbar using toolbar customization
> b) is a separate widget independent of Gloda global search widget
> c) is optional; does not replace/alter/interfere with existing quick filter
> bar (?) (although we'd have to clarify the behaviour when both are shown;
> where does Ctrl+F focus go to etc.)

g) when only the simple quick filter widget is shown, and the classic filter bar is hidden:
g1) Ctrl+F sets focus into the widget's search box; does NOT show classic filter bar (this is obvious, otherwise the whole space-saving idea wouldn't work)

h) when both the simple quick filter widget and the classic filter bar are shown:
h1) Ctrl+F sets focus to the classic filter bar's search box (not into the simple quick filter widget). Reason: When user has deliberately chosen to show the classic filter bar, he does so for a reason and we should use that as it's the primary interface with best UI integration.

Resulting intuitive behaviour of g1 and h1 combined is that
- when quickfilter bar is hidden, Ctrl+F will use simple quick filter widget
- when quickfilter bar is shown, Ctrl+F will use that instead.

h2) always ensure that criteria for quick filter widget and classic filter bar are identical (both the search string and the advanced criteria)
- while typing into the widget, search string simultaneously appears in the filter bar (if it's shown)
- when setting advanced criteria in the widget, same criteria are simultaneously set in the filter bar
- when user changes the visibility of either the widget (toolbar customize) or the filter bar (View > toolbars > filter bar, or the filter tab toggle), ensure criteria from "the other" filter UI, if any, are duplicated immediately

Another behaviour that needs clarification:
What happens UI-wise when user toggles "has tags" filter on?

1) just filter on messages that "have tags", but do NOT offer secondary tags filter refinement based on individual tags (less functionality than filter bar)
2) filter on messages that "have tags", and DO offer secondary tags filter refinement on individual tags (same functionality as filter bar)
2a) show a secondary bar with individual tags right above (i.e. inside) the message list (basically the same UI that we show now when tags is toggled on the filter bar, but stripped of any other UI elements on that bar; and obviously not showing the primary filter bar, so we still save the vertical space of one bar, plus we can show more tags horizontally on our bar).
2b) find some other place/UI element/behaviour to fine-tune the tags

To retain full functionality, and for simplicity's sake, I am very much in favor of 2a), on-demand secondary tags bar inside the message list pane, on top of results list.

Comment 99

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #98)
> Some further advanced comments on the proposed behaviour:
> 
> (In reply to comment #37)
> > Properties of Simple Quick Filter Widget with sticky pin
> [...]
> h2) always ensure that criteria for quick filter widget and classic filter bar
> are identical (both the search string and the advanced criteria)
> - while typing into the widget, search string simultaneously appears in the
> filter bar (if it's shown)

and vice versa, of course

> - when setting advanced criteria in the widget, same criteria are
> simultaneously set in the filter bar

and vice versa, for sure

> - when user changes the visibility of either the widget (toolbar customize) or
> the filter bar (View > toolbars > filter bar, or the filter tab toggle), ensure
> criteria from "the other" filter UI, if any, are duplicated immediately

so that filter criteria are always identical/synchronized, right away
(Reporter)

Comment 100

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #98)
> Some further advanced comments on the proposed behaviour:

<snip>

> Resulting intuitive behaviour of g1 and h1 combined is that
> - when quickfilter bar is hidden, Ctrl+F will use simple quick filter widget
> - when quickfilter bar is shown, Ctrl+F will use that instead.

<snip>

> To retain full functionality, and for simplicity's sake, I am very much in
> favor of 2a), on-demand secondary tags bar inside the message list pane, on
> top of results list.

(In reply to comment #99)
> (In reply to comment #98)
>> Some further advanced comments on the proposed behaviour:
>> 
>> (In reply to comment #37)
>> > Properties of Simple Quick Filter Widget with sticky pin
>> [...]
>> h2) always ensure that criteria for quick filter widget and classic
>> filter bar are identical (both the search string and the advanced criteria)
>> - while typing into the widget, search string simultaneously appears
>> in the filter bar (if it's shown)
> 
> and vice versa, of course
> 
>> - when setting advanced criteria in the widget, same criteria are
>> simultaneously set in the filter bar
> 
> and vice versa, for sure
> 
>> - when user changes the visibility of either the widget (toolbar 
>> customize) or the filter bar (View > toolbars > filter bar, or the
>> filter tab toggle), ensure criteria from "the other" filter UI, if
>> any, are duplicated immediately
> 
> so that filter criteria are always identical/synchronized, right away

+1 to all of your above comments - thanks for taking the time to clarify these issues Thomas.

Updated

9 years ago
Alias: qfwidget
Summary: Make new Quickfilter Toolbar optionally available as a simple searchbox+stickypin with new selectable search criteria in persistent pop-up → Make Quickfilter optionally available as simple searchbox widget+stickypin (with filter criteria in persistent popup panel; toolbar customization)
Comment on attachment 460747 [details]
Interactive XUL Mockup V.3: Simple Quick Filter Widget with horizontal floating Criteria Panel on top

This has a really interesting concept that I like with the floating bar, I'm not sure how it will work out with the other toolbars.  I'll comment more generally in the bug.
Attachment #460747 - Flags: feedback?(clarkbw) → feedback+
Attachment #460051 - Flags: feedback?(clarkbw) → feedback-

Comment 102

9 years ago
I still prefer the dropdown variant because I can much quicker see what options I've selected with the first glance. With the horizontal critetia panel I need longer to realize that. It also seems superior for switching between filtering and global search.

I just wish I already had it in TB this way :'-)
(Reporter)

Comment 103

9 years ago
@Frank

Maybe you didn't realize it, but the latest mockup (version 3, that I like the best) that Thomas coded allows for BOTH variants - if you want to use the dropdown, click the little down arrow, if you like the panel, click inside the searchbox.

When (trying to be positive that it will be) this is implemented, it would probably make sense to provide a user pref (hidden) to disable one or the other...

I really really hope some kind soul comes along to implement this, it is really the only/last major problem I have with TB3...
(Reporter)

Updated

9 years ago
Summary: Make Quickfilter optionally available as simple searchbox widget+stickypin (with filter criteria in persistent popup panel; toolbar customization) → Make Quickfilter optionally available as simple searchbox widget+stickypin (with filter criteria in persistent popup panel &/or dropdown; toolbar customization)
(Reporter)

Comment 104

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #101)
> Comment on attachment 460747 [details]
> Interactive XUL Mockup V.3: Simple Quick Filter Widget with horizontal floating
> Criteria Panel on top
> 
> This has a really interesting concept that I like with the floating bar, I'm
> not sure how it will work out with the other toolbars.  I'll comment more
> generally in the bug.

Hi Bryan... haven't seen any additional comments from you yet...

What did you mean about 'how it will work out with the other toolbars'?
Flags: wanted-thunderbird+
Keywords: helpwanted
(Reporter)

Updated

9 years ago
Depends on: 603915

Comment 105

9 years ago
I guess I am not the only one that wants to move the Quick Filter to the Mail Toolbar...

I find it takes up too much room when it's open, so it requires an extra click to open it then another extra click to close it.

I have lots of room on the mail toolbar so that's a great place for it.

Thanks
(Reporter)

Comment 106

9 years ago
Hi Jeff - so please, by all means, vote for this bug... :)
(Reporter)

Comment 107

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #105)
> I find it takes up too much room when it's open, so it requires an extra click
> to open it then another extra click to close it.

I have made mine barely tolerable by using the keyconfig extension and changing the key combination to show it to something other than CTRL-F (because of the extremely irritating fact that CTRL-F works on either the Quickfilter toolbar or the Message body search toolbar at the bottom, depending on cursor focus (I still don't know how it is supposed to work, all I know it is far too irritating to even bother with).

Anyway, now I show it with CTRL-SHIFT-Fm and hide it with ESC...

Comment 108

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #107)
> the
> extremely irritating fact that CTRL-F works on either the Quickfilter toolbar
> or the Message body search toolbar at the bottom, depending on cursor focus

I can't get CTRL+F to bring up the Message body search toolbar at the bottom (I've tried clicking in the Message Pane); I always get the Quickfilter (which is a good thing). Which focus gives you the Message body search?

Comment 109

9 years ago
@Charles... I have now voted for it! Thanks
(Reporter)

Updated

9 years ago
Depends on: 575355
No longer depends on: 603915

Comment 110

9 years ago
> I can't get CTRL+F to bring up the Message body search toolbar at the bottom
> (I've tried clicking in the Message Pane); I always get the Quickfilter (which
> is a good thing). Which focus gives you the Message body search?

Peter, developers have tried a new and arguable approach here with some toggle magic that however widely ignores focus. it works like this:
first ctrl+f sets focus on qfb
second ctrl+f (while focus is still in qfb) sets focus on "find text in msg" bar
it's important not to close qfb
iirc, the important factor is not focus, it just somehow alternates between the two, with a preference for the qfb if that isn't visible, i think
which sometimes fails depending on how you operate with the "find text"

try ctrl+g to directly set focus into "find text", but it is not exactly the same as 2x ctrl+f
> try ctrl+g to directly set focus into "find text", but it is not exactly the
> same as 2x ctrl+f

Even if this were a good key combination -- which it isn't, being completely contrary to every expectation platform -- command-G simply
doesn't work (except the first time) on the Macintosh platform.

That is Bug 579372.
Which is marked WONTFIX, rather than fixed, just as one would expect given the professional quality of the parties involved.  

It's hard to understand how things as fundamental as searching messages in a folder by simple criteria and searching for text within a message could be
broken so badly and allowed to escape into release, and remain so broken for so long through subsequent releases.  But here we are.

Comment 112

9 years ago
> (comment #111) That is Bug 579372. Which is marked WONTFIX  

While that bug may have been closed prematurely (I would agree with such an assessment), there are bug 564328 on untangling the Ctrl+F shortcut and the underlying cmd_find logic (which caused bug 581566 on mixed-up menus too), as well as bug 571280 on the focus issue where you can navigate into a no-op. Hopefully there is sufficient agreement by now that combining the functions of these two operations under a single command and shortcut wasn't a good idea.

Comment 113

9 years ago
To clarify: I agree with the reason why bug 579372, but not with its style
of presentation. ;-) Anyway, let's focus here on Thomas' design and keep the focus/shortcut issues handled in the other bugs.

Comment 114

9 years ago
PLEASE let us have the option of using the old version. Most people don't need advanced search options in the quick filter, I for one use it only to find a relevant email by the author. But I do it OFTEN, and having to open that bloody searchbar gets me on my nerves every time. And I cannot afford keeping it open, as I have a small screen. 
I understand that the advanced features can be neat, but the step back in terms of usability for the most frequent use of this tool is just ridiculous.
This is *really* frustrating, and I don't want to revert to an old version and not be up to date in terms of security. Please either leave the option of selecting the magnifiying glass or integrate the new filter as a toolbar item, but don't keep it like this. Thank you.

Comment 115

9 years ago
I can promise you that you will be happy with the next release of the Unified Search addon. I'm kind of a beta tester for it and the last beta I got is great. It allows you to hide all the new stuff and just have a filter box in the button bar with either a dropdown or a horizontal bar (like shown above) that can be used like in TB2. It has many more features for using the new TB stuff also, but if you like you can just revert to the TB2 behaviour. It has additional useful options like keeping or deleting (like TB2) filter options on restart etc. which TB3 does not have.
From the current beta state I guess an official release won't take too long now, so stay tuned  :-)
(Reporter)

Comment 116

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #115)
> I can promise you that you will be happy with the next release of the Unified
> Search addon. I'm kind of a beta tester for it and the last beta I got is
> great.

Hi Frank - as the one who opened this bug, I would *love* a chance to help beta test it... any possibility of you sending me a PM with a link?

Comment 117

9 years ago
Hi,
 As Frank announced days ago, I developed an implementation to the qfwidget concept explained at this bug and 'based' on the interactive mockups.
 Now, I release it! Is part of my extension 'Unified Search' since 0.5 version available in AMO but without Mozilla review.
 The extension allow you to add the widget from the 'Toolbar Customize' window and replace the standard search box, integrating filter and search options in only one.
 Is usable and *very* stable I think, but remember that is a first version, that not only do filter else have search capabilities too, and is a 'real mockup' that can change and evolve at future versions depending on the experience, needs and feedback.

 https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/187593/

 Enjoy it!

Comment 118

9 years ago
@IagoSRL... I just installed addon and that is GREAT improvement over how it was!

Thanks

Comment 119

8 years ago
Hi IagoSRL

The new addon is great. One small suggestion: an 'x' button to clear the search text.

Comment 120

8 years ago
Hello IagoSRL,

I am running 3.1.8, having been autoupdated from the 3.0.x series. I found the modified quickfilter very annoying as I have to switch between the keyboard and mouse a lot to use it (normally I click the dropdown, select the type of filter I want to do, then type a little until I see the message I am looking for. In the 3.1 series, I now have to type, have my UI rearrange itself (grr), then click for the search I want, then go back to the keyboard and type again).

So I tried your extention, but seeing as I have disabled Gloda, it simply does not function at all; there is no dropdown arrow, nor any kind of ability to select the search type.

On the upside it has moved the search/filter/whatever textentry area to the correct location. Without the extention I just have a giant gap above the filter area.

thanks

Comment 121

8 years ago
Sounds strange. I have Gloda disabled, too, but that doesn't influence the filtering possibility. And the dropdown arrow does in no way depend on Gloda or sth. Do you use the correct box? Please note that there is a new box for the unified search that you can place in the e.g. icon bar when customizing the bars. You can remove the global search box and the quick filter bar safely and only work with the unified search box as it can do both, filtering and search. You can switch between these functions with the magnifier glass/funnel icon.

Updated

8 years ago
Blocks: 667246

Comment 122

8 years ago
because of changes in firefox: "Remote XUL (XUL through HTTP) has been removed
from Firefox 4 (see bug 546857 for more information). But there's still a whitelist that allows remote XUL access on a per-domain level

To allow the xul demos from bugzilla's attachments directly, you need
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/remote-xul-manager/
then add https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/ to that xul-whitelist.

to allow local file://xul in current FF, goto about:config and set dom.allow_XUL_XBL_for_file -> true

Updated

8 years ago
Whiteboard: uiwanted → uiwanted; to enable xul demos, see comment 122
(Reporter)

Comment 123

8 years ago
mycae:

Iago's extension (Unified Search) has it's *own* searchbox that you have to *manually* add to one of your toolbars...

Also, the latest version (0.6.3) seems to have fixed all of the minor bugs, and added the 'x' to clear the searchbox... it is now working *oerfectly*, and is, imnsho, an excellent candidate for inclusion in the core code.

Would one of the devs please comment on whether or not there is a process in place for proposing extensions for inclusion in the core code?
Charles: There's no official procedure, but merging the quick filter and global search boxes is one of the things I'ld like to see happen.  So, to move this forward, I think we can do one of two things.  Either someone can add Iago's extension as an attachment, and ask me for ui-review, or someone (possibly Iago) can take the code from his extension and start turning it into a patch to Thunderbird.

I don't have a preference as to which way it happens.  I suspect there will be some small tweaks I'll ask for ui-wise before it lands in core either way, so it sort of depends on what Iago wants to do.

Thanks,
Blake.
(Reporter)

Comment 125

8 years ago
Hi Blake,

Here you go... and here's keeping my fingers crossed... ;)
(Reporter)

Comment 126

8 years ago
(In reply to Blake Winton (:bwinton - Thunderbird UX) from comment #124)
> Charles: There's no official procedure,

Hmmm... before I go open a bug/feature request for this, what would be the proper way to formally make such a suggestion?

Since an Addon is the ideal way to add new functionality 'outside the box', there really should be a formal procedure for proposing extensions for addition in the core code, and for vetting them and giving it a thumbs up/down - but imo this should be formally adopted by Mozilla for both Thunderbird and Firefox.

If you tell me a bug request is the best way, I'll go open one...
Comment on attachment 577917 [details]
Iago's Unified Search Addon (latest version, 0.6.4)

(Just asking myself for review, to put this in the queue.)
Attachment #577917 - Flags: ui-review?(bwinton)
Comment on attachment 577917 [details]
Iago's Unified Search Addon (latest version, 0.6.4)

So, this is _kinda_ like what I was thinking of, but I don't think it's close enough to get a ui-r+.

The main thing I dislike is that it feels _way_ too cluttered.


Four icons in the search box is three and a half too many.

Manually having to switch between filter and global search forces me to make a decision before I feel I should.

The extra bar seems to pop up at odd times.
  I don't feel like I have any control over it.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2301433/Screenshots/SearchBar/GlobalSearch.png shows some extra icons beside the global search.
  What are they for?  Is that just a bug?


I realize that there is a conflict here between ux-minimalism and ux-discovery, but I think we need to go further towards the minimalism side of things than this current add-on does.

Thanks,
Blake.
Attachment #577917 - Flags: ui-review?(bwinton) → ui-review-
(Reporter)

Comment 129

7 years ago
Hi Blake,

thanks for looking at this... comments inline...

(In reply to Blake Winton (:bwinton - Thunderbird UX) from comment #128)
> Comment on attachment 577917 [details]
> Iago's Unified Search Addon (latest version, 0.6.4)
> 
> So, this is _kinda_ like what I was thinking of, but I don't think it's
> close enough to get a ui-r+.
> 
> The main thing I dislike is that it feels _way_ too cluttered.

As compared to the Quickfilter Toolbar?

Remember, this is designed to *replace* the entire QF toolbar.

It also auto-expands/contracts, depending on how much room is available where it is placed.

> Four icons in the search box is three and a half too many.

I agree to an extent, and would like to see this configurable. Personally, I'd like only the Pin icon and a Read/Unread toggle (those are the only ones I use a lot).

> Manually having to switch between filter and global search forces me to make
> a decision before I feel I should.

Not sure what you mean here, but I don't use the Global Search (have GLODA completely disabled)...

> The extra bar seems to pop up at odd times.

Haven't noticed this... and I use it heavily and have a lot of other extensions - maybe a conflict with one you have?

> I don't feel like I have any control over it.

I have zero problems with it, and like I said, use it heavily. Can you elaborate a little?

> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2301433/Screenshots/SearchBar/GlobalSearch.png shows
> some extra icons beside the global search.
>   What are they for?  Is that just a bug?

I only see the clear button, the button to switch back to Filter mode, and the Prefs button - what other buttons are you talking about?

> I realize that there is a conflict here between ux-minimalism and
> ux-discovery, but I think we need to go further towards the minimalism side
> of things than this current add-on does.

It is already vastly more minimalistic than the QF toolbar, so what are you contrasting it to?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I honestly don't see the problems youare talking about...
(In reply to Charles from comment #129)
> (In reply to Blake Winton (:bwinton - Thunderbird UX) from comment #128)
> > So, this is _kinda_ like what I was thinking of, but I don't think it's
> > close enough to get a ui-r+.
> > 
> > The main thing I dislike is that it feels _way_ too cluttered.
> As compared to the Quickfilter Toolbar?
> Remember, this is designed to *replace* the entire QF toolbar.

No, as compared with something I would want to add to Thunderbird.  ;)

> It also auto-expands/contracts, depending on how much room is available
> where it is placed.

I don't know how much of a feature that is.  I think I would be confused if things moved around too much when I resized the window.  (Perhaps that's not how it works.  Perhaps it's not actually that confusing.)

> > Four icons in the search box is three and a half too many.
> I agree to an extent, and would like to see this configurable. Personally,
> I'd like only the Pin icon and a Read/Unread toggle (those are the only ones
> I use a lot).

I don't know of many search fields that have more than one active thing in them.  (Even Firefox's has only one _active_ thing, and the two icons it contains are on opposite sides, and thus less cluttered feeling.)  For this reason, I don't think letting people put _more_ icons into the text area is the right thing to do.

> > Manually having to switch between filter and global search forces me to make
> > a decision before I feel I should.
> Not sure what you mean here, but I don't use the Global Search (have GLODA
> completely disabled)...

Hmm.  So when I just tried it, I typed a string, then switched from filter to gloda, and the string disappeared.  I just tried the reverse now, and it seemed to work okay.  Perhaps it was just a bug I hit…

> > The extra bar seems to pop up at odd times.
> Haven't noticed this... and I use it heavily and have a lot of other
> extensions - maybe a conflict with one you have?

I only have lightning installed.

> > I don't feel like I have any control over it.
> I have zero problems with it, and like I said, use it heavily. Can you
> elaborate a little?

I suspect the fact that you use it heavily is the difference here.
For me, as a first-time user of the add-on, it feels cluttered and confusing.

(I also suspect that you have a higher tolerance for complexity than I do…  :)

> > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2301433/Screenshots/SearchBar/GlobalSearch.png shows
> > some extra icons beside the global search.
> >   What are they for?  Is that just a bug?
> I only see the clear button, the button to switch back to Filter mode, and
> the Prefs button - what other buttons are you talking about?

The ones to the left of the words "Messages mentioning: Mike".

> > I realize that there is a conflict here between ux-minimalism and
> > ux-discovery, but I think we need to go further towards the minimalism side
> > of things than this current add-on does.
> It is already vastly more minimalistic than the QF toolbar, so what are you
> contrasting it to?
> I'm not trying to be argumentative, I honestly don't see the problems youare
> talking about...

So, I've got a picture of all the bars up at
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2301433/Screenshots/SearchBar/GlobalSearch.png

You'll notice that the add-on has four buttons in the text box, as opposed to one icon for each of the QFB and GlodaBar.

For the QFB and GlodaBar, nothing pops up until I type something, whereas the add-on shows an extra popup (with a button to switch the popup from horizontal to vertical?  Why is that even there?) as soon as I enter the field.

For the add-on's popup, there's no indication of what the various icons are, or which keys I would use to activate them.

For the add-on, to clear the options, Esc+Esc is a _horrible_ key combination.  (I also have no idea what "Clear Options" actually does…)

Why is there an icon to show or hide the extra popup?

Once I type something, and the bar is popped up, how do I navigate to it with the keyboard?


I agree there is more stuff displayed at the start in the QFB, but it's better organized, and so easier to understand, and I don't think the add-on actually does any less so it's not actually more minimal.

I think we can have something that offers both filtering and global search without making people specify which one they want, by extending the behaviour of the QFB when you type in something like "fjdsfjslfnsdkfn" to also cover cases where there are matches, and that seems like a better way to go to me…

Thanks,
Blake.
(Reporter)

Comment 131

7 years ago
(In reply to Blake Winton (:bwinton - Thunderbird UX) from comment #130)
> (In reply to Charles from comment #129)
>> (In reply to Blake Winton (:bwinton - Thunderbird UX) from comment #128)
>>> The main thing I dislike is that it feels _way_ too cluttered.

>> As compared to the Quickfilter Toolbar?
>> Remember, this is designed to *replace* the entire QF toolbar.

> No, as compared with something I would want to add to Thunderbird.  ;)

But...

a) we are talking about bringing something back that was *removed* that a *lot* of people liked and want to see brought back, and

b) as I said before, it is not nearly as 'cluttered' as what replaced it (the QF toolbar).

>> It also auto-expands/contracts, depending on how much room is available
>> where it is placed.

> I don't know how much of a feature that is.

It is nice, just like the way the Awesomebar (in Firefox) auto expands/contracts...

> I think I would be confused if things moved around too much when I resized
> the window.  (Perhaps that's not how it works.  Perhaps it's not actually
> that confusing.)

It isn't, and it isn't... ;)

It doesn't 'move around', it simple takes up more or less space, depending on how much room is available.

>>> Four icons in the search box is three and a half too many.

> I don't know of many search fields that have more than one active thing in
> them.  (Even Firefox's has only one _active_ thing, and the two icons it
> contains are on opposite sides, and thus less cluttered feeling.)  For this
> reason, I don't think letting people put _more_ icons into the text area is
> the right thing to do.

I was mainly talking about making iit configurable so that you could DEselect ones - I don't see a need for others to be there either.

>>> The extra bar seems to pop up at odd times.
>> Haven't noticed this... and I use it heavily and have a lot of other
>> extensions - maybe a conflict with one you have?

> I only have lightning installed.

Dunno then... it doesn't do this for me though.

> I suspect the fact that you use it heavily is the difference here.
> For me, as a first-time user of the add-on, it feels cluttered and confusing.
> 
> (I also suspect that you have a higher tolerance for complexity than I do… 
> :)

Maybe, but I also think that the fact that I don't use GLODA/Global Search ever has something to do with it too.

> > > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2301433/Screenshots/SearchBar/GlobalSearch.png shows
> > > some extra icons beside the global search.
> > >   What are they for?  Is that just a bug?
> > I only see the clear button, the button to switch back to Filter mode, and
> > the Prefs button - what other buttons are you talking about?
> 
> The ones to the left of the words "Messages mentioning: Mike".

Oh... the 'Messages mentioning: Mike' pop-out is actually covering up the rest - look and you'll see that those are the filter options, and the ones that are hidden are the attachment icon, and then the 'Sender, Recipients, Subject and Body options.

> So, I've got a picture of all the bars up at
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2301433/Screenshots/SearchBar/GlobalSearch.png
> 
> You'll notice that the add-on has four buttons in the text box, as opposed
> to one icon for each of the QFB and GlodaBar.

Correct, but...

That picture shows that you are in Global Search mode, not Filter mode. This extension is *primarily* meant to be used for filtering, not Global Searching, that part was added later. Switch to Filter mode (click the mode toggle button, which is the Magnifying glass icon) and experiment with that for a while...

> For the QFB and GlodaBar, nothing pops up until I type something, whereas
> the add-on shows an extra popup (with a button to switch the popup from
> horizontal to vertical?  Why is that even there?) as soon as I enter the
> field.

Someone didn't like the horizontal options panel and asked for it. But like I said, you are using a mode that I never use.

> For the add-on's popup, there's no indication of what the various icons are,
> or which keys I would use to activate them.

If you mouse-over them, you get tooltip descriptions of what they do.

> For the add-on, to clear the options, Esc+Esc is a _horrible_ key
> combination.

So do like I do and just click the little x icon.

> (I also have no idea what "Clear Options" actually does…)

It clears the searchbox text and any of the options (show Unread only, show Starred only, Show only messages with Attachments, etc)...

> Why is there an icon to show or hide the extra popup?
> 
> Once I type something, and the bar is popped up, how do I navigate to it
> with the keyboard?

Ok, I just played with this a little in Global Search mode, and yeah, it looks like there are a few bugs in there... I've never encountered them because I only use it in Filter mode.

> I agree there is more stuff displayed at the start in the QFB, but it's
> better organized, and so easier to understand, and I don't think the add-on
> actually does any less so it's not actually more minimal.

It is vastly more minimal, because it isn't a toolbar, it is a little searchbox that you can put wherever you want. I put all of my icons and the Unified Search box on the Menu bar.

> I think we can have something that offers both filtering and global search
> without making people specify which one they want, by extending the
> behaviour of the QFB when you type in something like "fjdsfjslfnsdkfn" to
> also cover cases where there are matches, and that seems like a better way
> to go to me…

The whole point of this addon is to eliminate the need for a huge toolbar, and give us back the little filter searchbox that can be placed wherever we want like TB 3.0- had.
(In reply to Charles from comment #131)
> (In reply to Blake Winton (:bwinton - Thunderbird UX) from comment #130)
> > (In reply to Charles from comment #129)
> >> (In reply to Blake Winton (:bwinton - Thunderbird UX) from comment #128)
> >>> The main thing I dislike is that it feels _way_ too cluttered.
> 
> >> As compared to the Quickfilter Toolbar?
> >> Remember, this is designed to *replace* the entire QF toolbar.
> > No, as compared with something I would want to add to Thunderbird.  ;)
> But...
> a) we are talking about bringing something back that was *removed* that a
> *lot* of people liked and want to see brought back, and

Perhaps the problem is that I'm not talking about bringing back anything…

> > > > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2301433/Screenshots/SearchBar/GlobalSearch.png shows
> > > > some extra icons beside the global search.
> > > I only see the clear button, the button to switch back to Filter mode, and
> > > the Prefs button - what other buttons are you talking about?
> > The ones to the left of the words "Messages mentioning: Mike".
> Oh... the 'Messages mentioning: Mike' pop-out is actually covering up the
> rest - look and you'll see that those are the filter options, and the ones
> that are hidden are the attachment icon, and then the 'Sender, Recipients,
> Subject and Body options.

But if I'm showing the global "Messages mentioning: Mike", how are those filter options showing?

> > So, I've got a picture of all the bars up at
> > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2301433/Screenshots/SearchBar/GlobalSearch.png
> > You'll notice that the add-on has four buttons in the text box, as opposed
> > to one icon for each of the QFB and GlodaBar.
> 
> Correct, but...
> 
> That picture shows that you are in Global Search mode, not Filter mode. This
> extension is *primarily* meant to be used for filtering, not Global
> Searching, that part was added later. Switch to Filter mode (click the mode
> toggle button, which is the Magnifying glass icon) and experiment with that
> for a while...

Right, then there are "only" three buttons, instead of the one for QFB and Gloda…

Also, the fact that there are two different modes is one of the problems I have with it.

> > For the add-on's popup, there's no indication of what the various icons are,
> > or which keys I would use to activate them.
> If you mouse-over them, you get tooltip descriptions of what they do.

And if I'm blind?  Even if I'm sighted, mousing-over and waiting for several tooltips before I finally find the icon I want is a bad UX by any measure.

> > For the add-on, to clear the options, Esc+Esc is a _horrible_ key
> > combination.
> So do like I do and just click the little x icon.

That there is an alternative doesn't make Esc+Esc a good UX.

> > (I also have no idea what "Clear Options" actually does…)
> It clears the searchbox text and any of the options (show Unread only, show
> Starred only, Show only messages with Attachments, etc)...

So, I mention all of these things not so that you can explain them, because I'm sure there are answers to any of them, but to demonstrate that there are a large number of things that are confusing to people who have never used the add-on before.

> > I agree there is more stuff displayed at the start in the QFB, but it's
> > better organized, and so easier to understand, and I don't think the add-on
> > actually does any less so it's not actually more minimal.
> It is vastly more minimal, because it isn't a toolbar, it is a little
> searchbox that you can put wherever you want. I put all of my icons and the
> Unified Search box on the Menu bar.

Not being a toolbar doesn't make it more minimal.  Neither does making it smaller.  (For that matter, neither does removing text labels from iconic buttons.)  Removing functionality from it (like my suggestion to remove the two modes) would make it more minimal, but you don't seem to be suggesting that.

Also, you know we've got plans to hide the menu bar by default, right?  So putting things there isn't a great long-term idea…

> > I think we can have something that offers both filtering and global search
> > without making people specify which one they want, by extending the
> > behaviour of the QFB when you type in something like "fjdsfjslfnsdkfn" to
> > also cover cases where there are matches, and that seems like a better way
> > to go to me…
> The whole point of this addon is to eliminate the need for a huge toolbar,
> and give us back the little filter searchbox that can be placed wherever we
> want like TB 3.0- had.

That's fine, but that's not the point of this bug.  (Or maybe it is, but that's not necessarily the direction that will get a ui-r+ from me…)  The point of this bug (as I see it) is to move forward with a better UI, not to bring back any specific UI from the past.

Thanks,
Blake.

Comment 134

7 years ago
Hi Blake and Charles,

 Sorry for the delay and thank you for debate.
 Let me explain some tips.

 Unified Search extension borns like a proof concept for the Bug 526221, because some things was dicussed about what is better and what worse, but without possibilities to test it (sometimes, something can seem bad when speeking about but good or no-so-bad when testing it). The extension exists only like attachments in that bug and not published at AMO, was not intended like a production extension. But works well enought, no progress was in resolution of that bug and I decide released.
 Later, a quick solution for Bug 520040 (it's no smart, but works and is only one line solution), and from 0.5 version an implementation for this Bug extremely based on the attached Thomas's mockups. And the idea was the same: to be a proof concept, an extension to test different features, behaviors, to select what is best, what is bad, what can be improved. Not was intented to be exactly the final solution, I'm sorry if this was what seems.

 On other hand, let me say, Blake, all you pointed like possible bugs, really are, but seems happens only to you (works good for me, and seems works for Charles), I must continue testing it to discovered and solve it. But the topic is not this, the extension is not builded to be 'as is' included in the Thunderbird code, because technical reasons; can be useful for daily use by power users and useful to speek about what features and how must be included in Thunderbird, like we are doing now, and this last is really its goal.

 For example, Unified Search include three alternatives to unified global and filter boxes:
 - Give to the Thunderbird Global Search box filter capabilities (active it from the extension options).
 - Give to the Thunderbird Quick Filter box global search capability (active it from the extension options and disable 'hide quick filter bar' and 'hide quick filter box'; then, press Ctrl+Enter when using the standard filter box to open a global search -press only the Enter key is an available option, but disabled by default because was discussed previously and don't like to several users that use Enter to speed up the filtering, that have a timeout-). By default (without the extension), a global search can be opened from the filter box only when there are no results, with extension you can do it ever.
 - Create a new widget, with both capabilities: current Unified Search Widget do this, but includes several options for testing only:
   - Horizontal bar, vertical bar, and a button to show/hide it (and also a shortcut, press Down key when in widget box): final widget implementation must only include one of them, vertical Or horizontal, and maybe the button can be removed or changed in some way; will be simplier than now, but both options was included because was discussed previously with the Thomas's mockup, extension can be used to test both options and choice the bests (or evolve one of them); "test it to decide", and not only "think about it to decide", was my contribution to help in the process of choosing a solution.
   - Widget working 'all in one', or with two differents modes (one for only search, one for filtering), and the button and shortcut to switch mode: the 'two differents modes' behavior needs a button and shortcut to switch mode, maybe being a more cluttered widget, but 'all in one' without modes without search/filter button needs some way to change between show global search suggestions or not show it (because show global search suggestions can overlap some filtering results if both are working at same time -this behavior can be tested using the standard global search with filtering capabilities enabled and disabling the option 'autocomplete and quick filtering must be incompatible'-). 'All in one' must be thought like current 'filter mode' without the search/filter switch button (imagine it;).

 Another questions:
 - Technically, I'm using the 'Thunderbird global search widget' (gloda box) like the widget base, because of this, all their features are inherit, and then, I change something to implement filtering by synchronizing widget values with the standard quick filter box, because of this Unified Search Extension needs the Quick Filter Bar to exists to work, this must be changed in a Thunderbird implementation of Unified Widget.
 - 'auto-expands/contracts': previously means that auto-expand/contracts features is not implemented by me, is implemented by standard global search widget, and I don't touch it, you can enjoy this feature in the standard search without the extension! I don't know if is a bad or good feature, but is a Thunderbird feature. If don't like you, maybe a bug for this can be opened.
 - 'So when I just tried it, I typed a string, then switched from filter to gloda, and the string disappeared': it's a bug, the behavior must be that the string is presserved in order to allow you to see the search suggestions (that appear automatically when switch), it's the idea; But works fine to me, I couldn't repeat the bug :(.
 - 'For the add-on's popup, there's no indication of what the various icons are, or which keys I would use to activate them.': I use the standard Mozilla-XUL method to implement key-shortcuts, meaning that a letter is underscored or between brackets in the button text; but I see in your screenshots that you are using 'icons only' in the preferences of your toolbar, this hide all texts in Thunderbird buttons and Unified Search buttons too. Just like the standard. Maybe an alternative to the standard can be used (any idea?) or have a 'customize' preference different for the widget options bar (pop-up with the filtering options). New users will see the texts and shortcuts reminders because 'icons beside text' is the default configuration in Thunderbird. Note: if you have opened the Thunderbird Quick Filter Bar when trying to use the shortcuts from Unified Search Widget, shortcuts will no work because a conflict, but is a bug that only happens with both opened, the idea is have only one bar, not both.
 - I know some filtering options shortcuts overrules some menu shortcuts, is a knowed bug. Note that Thunderbird quick filter bar have not shortcuts for this options/buttons by default, are included with the extension.
 - 'For the add-on, to clear the options, Esc+Esc is a _horrible_ key combination.  (I also have no idea what "Clear Options" actually does…)': It's only doing the same that Thunderbird Quick Filter Box does (that really is a three-Esc process); maybe a proposal can be opened like a new bug, and I can try to implement it in the extension to test it. To explain, Thunderbird developers decision was:
    - One Esc: clear filtering text; if no text, clear last filter option (un-press/un-select button); if no text and no options selected, close quick filter bar.
    - Second Esc: clear options (un-press/un-selects buttons)
    - Third Esc: close quick filter bar.
    - Press clear button: clear filtering text; here there is a small difference in Unified Search Widget: clear button clear the text and the options (is like reset all filtering options). What behavior is preferred here, clear all or clear only text?
 - 'I agree there is more stuff displayed at the start in the QFB, but it's better organized, and so easier to understand, and I don't think the add-on actually does any less so it's not actually more minimal.': Yes, the idea is just do the same in less space and organization I think is quite similar, only changed the main place where widget is and some options in a popup/menu (despite the behavior of use 'icons only' for options, it's a config matter, not what a new user will see with default profile -'icons beside text' is the default config-). But it's important for small screens, like netbooks, be minimal: I have users that 'love' Unified Search Widget just for this and hate standard big bar.
 - 'Why is there an icon to show or hide the extra popup?': because is needed for the horizontal menu; if the prefered option is have the popup bar and remove the horizontal menu, we can remove the button.
 - 'Once I type something, and the bar is popped up, how do I navigate to it with the keyboard?': it's a weak, shared with the standard Thunderbird quick filter bar (spite of this, the bar was included in thunderbird); only can be 'navigated' with shortcuts. Any technique solution is welcome (we can open a new bug for this, because happens to Thunderbird just now from 3.1 version).
 - 'I think we can have something that offers both filtering and global search without making people specify which one they want, by extending the behaviour of the QFB when you type in something like "fjdsfjslfnsdkfn" to also cover cases where there are matches, and that seems like a better way to go to me…': I explain this previously, try the filter-box with global search capabilities, global search with filtering capabilities, or using the unified search widget only in filtering mode and press Ctrl+Enter to do a global search and say us what you prefer, or what approach is closest to what you prefer and we can work on the right track.
 - A bug in Unified Search Widget: no message is included saying the number of messages found; if preference 'hide quick filter bar' is selected, no coloured border appear, only a different background colour.
 - A bug in Unified Search Widget: no options to select what tags you want to filter on, Quick Filter Bar let you choose some tags after press 'Tags' button.

 'Nothing' more ;-)
 Sorry for the large text, I hope I was clear, please ask any questions.

Thanks,
IagoSRL

Comment 135

7 years ago
Thanks Charles for yours explanations, and Blake for the criticism, we need both to be better!

I'm sorry again that I wrote my previous comment before know that new commens come in (the three last); I decide published anyway because is valid yet.

Blake, if Esc+Esc (and Esc+Esc+Esc) seems you a design error, another bug must be created because of is a feature included in Thunderbird, I only replicated in my extension to match the default behavior (more explanations in my previous comment).

Thanks everybody,
IagoSRL
(Reporter)

Comment 136

7 years ago
(In reply to Blake Winton (:bwinton - Thunderbird UX) from comment #133)
> (In reply to Charles from comment #131)
>> (In reply to Blake Winton (:bwinton - Thunderbird UX) from comment #130)
>>> (In reply to Charles from comment #129)
>>>> (In reply to Blake Winton (:bwinton - Thunderbird UX) from comment #128)

>> a) we are talking about bringing something back that was *removed* that a
>> *lot* of people liked and want to see brought back, and

> Perhaps the problem is that I'm not talking about bringing back anything…

Well, that is the point of this whole bug - I should know, I am the one who opened it.

>> That picture shows that you are in Global Search mode, not Filter mode. This
>> extension is *primarily* meant to be used for filtering, not Global
>> Searching, that part was added later. Switch to Filter mode (click the mode
>> toggle button, which is the Magnifying glass icon) and experiment with that
>> for a while...

> Right, then there are "only" three buttons, instead of the one for QFB and
> Gloda…

? in Filter mode, there are *4* buttons

> Also, the fact that there are two different modes is one of the problems I
> have with it.

Flexibility sometimes comes with a certain level of complexity, but I don't think this is all that complicated, it just takes a little experimentation and getting used to how it works.

As Iago has said, apparently there are some bugs in the Global mode functionality, so maybe you can help him get them fixed?

>>> For the add-on's popup, there's no indication of what the various icons are,
>>> or which keys I would use to activate them.

>> If you mouse-over them, you get tooltip descriptions of what they do.

> And if I'm blind?

Then you'd be having similar problems with the QFB wouldn't you? I don't see your point.

> Even if I'm sighted, mousing-over and waiting for several tooltips before I
> finally find the icon I want is a bad UX by any measure.

Well, then, since tooltips are used in lots of places in both Thunderbird and Firefox (and lots of other programs), I guess they *all* have lots of 'bad UX'.

Come on, Blake... it only takes mousing over them a few times before you learn what they do and then there's no more need to mouse over them ever again, and you *know* it, so why are you being so disingenuous about this?

> For the add-on, to clear the options, Esc+Esc is a _horrible_ key
> combination.

And what would you call having to use 'Ctrl-F' to enable the 'Find in message' filter, and then have to use 'Esc' to hide it again? At least the nonsensical *double* use of 'Ctrl-f' (depending on context) and double-esc for toggling the QFB and/or the 'Find in message' filters was finally sort-of fixed (I still hate it, but it is less painful now).

>> So do like I do and just click the little x icon.

> That there is an alternative doesn't make Esc+Esc a good UX.

So maybe you can suggest a way to improve it?

Really, Blake, it sounds like you're looking to bash this addon just because - well, I honestly don't know why. Maybe you're offended that there are a lot of people who don't agree with the decision to *lose* the message filter searchbox rather than just add the QFB as a new *optional* way to filter messages, and that someone very capable (thanks Iago!) actually stepped up and did something about it?

>>> (I also have no idea what "Clear Options" actually does…)

>> It clears the searchbox text and any of the options (show Unread only, show
>> Starred only, Show only messages with Attachments, etc)...

> So, I mention all of these things not so that you can explain them, because
> I'm sure there are answers to any of them, but to demonstrate that there are
> a large number of things that are confusing to people who have never used
> the add-on before.

The same can be said of *any* new feature/functionality in *any* program.

>> It is vastly more minimal, because it isn't a toolbar, it is a little
>> searchbox that you can put wherever you want. I put all of my icons and the
>> Unified Search box on the Menu bar.

> Not being a toolbar doesn't make it more minimal.  Neither does making it
> smaller. (For that matter, neither does removing text labels from iconic
> buttons.)

Ok, Blake, no offense, but you simply cannot be serious. It *does* make it more 'minimal', in the sense that it takes up less *space* *and* allows the user the freedom to put the searchbox wherever they want and be able to filter messages without having another huge toolbar taking up more precious screen real estate, which is *the* *whole* *point*.

> Removing functionality from it (like my suggestion to remove the two modes)
> would make it more minimal, but you don't seem to be suggesting that.

I'm actually fine with losing the 'Global' search aspects (since I never use it), but I don't see any problem with keeping it either (again, since I don't use it, I just won't use this aspect), or at least keeping the ability to launch a global search using 'Ctrl+Enter' either. Again, best of both worlds (for those who live in both).

> Also, you know we've got plans to hide the menu bar by default, right?  So
> putting things there isn't a great long-term idea…

<sigh> Yes, it is. I *already* have everything up in the menubar and *already* keep the menubar hidden by default (drops down on mouseover of the window titlebar) using the Hide Menubar addon. Once we have the *native* ability to hide the menubar and get the App Menu Button done for Thunderbird, the addon developer for the 'Personal Titlebar' addon will be able to (and has already said he would) add support for Thunderbird, which will let me swap the Hide Menubar addon for the PErsonal Titlebar addon which will let me have *everything* up in the *Window Titlebar* (just like I do now in Firefox), which is my ultimate goal.

I will attach some screenshots of what my UI looks like after posting this...

> I think we can have something that offers both filtering and global search
> without making people specify which one they want, by extending the
> behaviour of the QFB when you type in something like "fjdsfjslfnsdkfn" to
> also cover cases where there are matches, and that seems like a better way
> to go to me…

For you, or anyone who likes the QFB, maybe, but for those of use who do not want another toolbar just to be able to do simple message filtering, that is unacceptable, especially when a better way already exists.

I (and there are lots more like me) *don't* *like* the QFB, precisely because it is a *toolbar*. It was the *reason* I opened this bug, and the *reason* that Iago coded the Unified Search Addon - so those of use who preferred the simple little movable filter text box could have the best of both worlds.

>> The whole point of this addon is to eliminate the need for a huge toolbar,
>> and give us back the little filter searchbox that can be placed wherever we
>> want like TB 3.0- had.

> That's fine, but that's not the point of this bug.

*Yes it is*. Maybe you should go up and read the opening comment. I should know, I wrote it/opened this bug.

> (Or maybe it is, but that's not necessarily the direction that will get a
> ui-r+ from me…)  The point of this bug (as I see it) is to move forward
> with a better UI, not to bring back any specific UI from the past.

Then you must have never bothered to read the opening comment. Too bad, because the loss of the movable search box was a huge blow for many, many people.

What really bugs me the most about this attitude of yours, Blake, is, most of the time in cases like this, developers will say something like - 'hey, it is free software, if you want the old behavior back, send us a patch, and as long as it is well written, works as advertised and doesn't introduce new bugs or change the desired *new* functionality, we'll work it in'. Well, the heavy lifting has already been done by Iago, and I'm sure Iago would be willing to work with you guys on any changes you wanted/needed to get this code properly integrated into the core. But it seems that you simply are unable to grasp the fact that not everyone is enamored with the new QFB as a total replacement for the little searchbox widget, and so cannot see the value/benefit. Sad, really.

Change for change's sake is not always for the best, and killing off the simple/movable message searchbox filter was a *mistake*, in mine and many others' opinions.
(Reporter)

Comment 137

7 years ago
This is my thunderbird with the menubar hidden (using  the 'Hide Menubar' addon. With this addon, the menubar will auto-hide itself after a specified interval (unless the textbox for the 'Unified Search' addon has focus), and show itself drop down) on mouseover of the window titlebar (next attachment will have the menubar showing).
(Reporter)

Comment 138

7 years ago
As described, this shows the menubar after I mouse-over the window titlebar.
(Reporter)

Comment 139

7 years ago
This is how my Firefox looks with the 'Personal Titlebar' addon installed, and *everything* placed on the menubar. Also, I use the 'Tree Style Tab' addon to move the tabbar to the left side, and have the auth-hide funcionality enabled, which uses a *panel* to show the tabbar instead of forcing the whole window to move to the right when the tabbar pops out (note that you can see the webpage through/behind the tabbar).

This is absolutely *ideal* for a netbook or any small screen, but is also very pleasant on a large monitor as well.
(Reporter)

Comment 140

7 years ago
Sorry, in my last I said you could see the web page behind the tabbar, but  that one was with the tabbar hidden.

This is the one with the tabbar showing in a panel, so you can see the webpage 'behind' the tabbar...
Surprisingly I'm pretty much liking the addon. One nit is if I filter on X in tab A and then on Y in tab B, that Y is shown in tab A when I go back to A. Even though A is still filtered on X.

That said, this bug seems to have gone off the rails, starting in comment 115 - 117, and 124. Let me point out that *Blake didn't start this*, and the direction wasn't brought back in focus by anyone back then, until ~comment 129, that the addon doesn't focus on what you (Charles) want.  

STM the current addon focused on reunification and it's conversation should probably go in a different bug. Not that it will change the direction of the addon - which seems clear enough to me - but it may help get this bug back on topic. How quickly it progresses is a different matter.
(Reporter)

Comment 142

7 years ago
(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #141)
> Surprisingly I'm pretty much liking the addon. One nit is if I filter on X
> in tab A and then on Y in tab B, that Y is shown in tab A when I go back to
> A. Even though A is still filtered on X.

Well, again, since I don't use tabs, I would never have encountered those issues... most likely Iago can fix them though if you report it to him...

> That said, this bug seems to have gone off the rails, starting in comment
> 115 - 117, and 124. Let me point out that *Blake didn't start this*, and the
> direction wasn't brought back in focus by anyone back then, until ~comment
> 129, that the addon doesn't focus on what you (Charles) want.  

Not sure what you mean... the addon totally fulfills this bug request. We - users - are often told that an Addon is a good way to get a feature implemented, because then the code is already written, and thus, the Unified Search Addon was born.

> STM the current addon focused on reunification

No, initially, the Addon focused precisely on fulfilling my original request, as hammered out in the mockups so artfully done by Thomas D. The 'unification' aspect (unifying the Global Search etc) was added *afterwards*...

> and it's conversation should probably go in a different bug. Not that it will
> change the direction of the addon - which seems clear enough to me - but it
> may help get this bug back on topic. How quickly it progresses is a different
> matter.

Again, I don't follow. This addon *totally* fulfills my request, so please I wish you guys would stop telling me that it doesn't - I should know, I made it, and am using (and now totally dependent on), and that is why I'm now asking for the Unified Search addon to be incorporated into the core code (since that would be the last step in fulfilling this bug request).
(In reply to Charles from comment #142)
> (In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #141)
> > Surprisingly I'm pretty much liking the addon. One nit is if I filter on X
> > in tab A and then on Y in tab B, that Y is shown in tab A when I go back to
> > A. Even though A is still filtered on X.
> 
> Well, again, since I don't use tabs, I would never have encountered those
> issues... most likely Iago can fix them though if you report it to him...
> 
> > That said, this bug seems to have gone off the rails, starting in comment
> > 115 - 117, and 124. Let me point out that *Blake didn't start this*, and the
> > direction wasn't brought back in focus by anyone back then, until ~comment
> > 129, that the addon doesn't focus on what you (Charles) want.  
> 
> Not sure what you mean... the addon totally fulfills this bug request. We -
> users - are often told that an Addon is a good way to get a feature
> implemented, because then the code is already written, and thus, the Unified
> Search Addon was born.

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding. because
a) I said nothing about not doing an addon, and
b) your bug summary says nothing about reunification


> > STM the current addon focused on reunification
> 
> No, initially, the Addon focused precisely on fulfilling my original
> request, as hammered out in the mockups so artfully done by Thomas D. The
> 'unification' aspect (unifying the Global Search etc) was added
> *afterwards*...
> 
> > and it's conversation should probably go in a different bug. Not that it will
> > change the direction of the addon - which seems clear enough to me - but it
> > may help get this bug back on topic. How quickly it progresses is a different
> > matter.
> 
> Again, I don't follow. This addon *totally* fulfills my request, so please I
> wish you guys would stop telling me that it doesn't - I should know, I made
> it, and am using (and now totally dependent on), and that is why I'm now
> asking for the Unified Search addon to be incorporated into the core code
> (since that would be the last step in fulfilling this bug request).

then apparently I have goofed, and am happy to say so. it would help please to change your bug title/summary so one doesn't have to read 100+ comments to understand the basics of the bug, and get summarily blasted when we make seemingly useless comments. maybe even resummarize the goal.  Bear in mind, if you conflate multiple goals, the patch is much more complex, and less likely to be accepted into core - addon or no addon.

big kudos to Iago and all for working to improve Tbird.
W.
(In reply to Charles from comment #136)
> (In reply to Blake Winton (:bwinton - Thunderbird UX) from comment #133)
> >> a) we are talking about bringing something back that was *removed* that a
> >> *lot* of people liked and want to see brought back, and
> > Perhaps the problem is that I'm not talking about bringing back anything…
> Well, that is the point of this whole bug - I should know, I am the one who
> opened it.

Ah, in that case, I'm not really in favour of this, since that sounds like just adding yet more search boxes to confuse our users with.  (Although, with 144 comments, it's possible I'm _still_ misunderstanding the point of this bug.)

> > Also, the fact that there are two different modes is one of the problems I
> > have with it.
> Flexibility sometimes comes with a certain level of complexity, but I don't
> think this is all that complicated, it just takes a little experimentation
> and getting used to how it works.

I disagree, which seems to put us at an impasse.

Our user-testing has shown that people have problems with the two search bars, and trying to figure out which one to use for what kind of searches.  Merging them into a single bar that sometimes does what you want and sometimes doesn't doesn't seem to me to be a good way to resolve that issue, and I think we can do better than that.

> > For the add-on, to clear the options, Esc+Esc is a _horrible_ key
> > combination.
> And what would you call having to use 'Ctrl-F' to enable the 'Find in
> message' filter, and then have to use 'Esc' to hide it again? At least the
> nonsensical *double* use of 'Ctrl-f' (depending on context) and double-esc
> for toggling the QFB and/or the 'Find in message' filters was finally
> sort-of fixed (I still hate it, but it is less painful now).

That was another key combo didn't work out.  (I'm also not particularly happy with the current set of key combos, but if we ever manage to merge the QFB and Gloda bars, we can just use Ctrl-K, which is better, I think.)

> Really, Blake, it sounds like you're looking to bash this addon just because
> - well, I honestly don't know why.

I'm not trying to bash the add-on (and said so to Iago in email), I'm just trying to point out things that I would want to see improved/fixed before landing something like this in Thunderbird.

> Maybe you're offended that there are a
> lot of people who don't agree with the decision to *lose* the message filter
> searchbox rather than just add the QFB as a new *optional* way to filter
> messages, and that someone very capable (thanks Iago!) actually stepped up
> and did something about it?

Well, it wasn't my decision, so I'm not particularly offended.  (But I'm also not convinced that only ever adding things, and never taking things away is a path that will lead to good software.)

> > Not being a toolbar doesn't make it more minimal.  Neither does making it
> > smaller. (For that matter, neither does removing text labels from iconic
> > buttons.)
> Ok, Blake, no offense, but you simply cannot be serious. It *does* make it
> more 'minimal', in the sense that it takes up less *space* *and* allows the
> user the freedom to put the searchbox wherever they want and be able to
> filter messages without having another huge toolbar taking up more precious
> screen real estate, which is *the* *whole* *point*.

I see that you and I are talking about two completely different things.

I don't care how much space we take up, if we get an easier to use program.

You seem to not care how easy something is to use, as long as it takes up as little space as possible.

(Or, put another way, I want something that's conceptually minimal, whereas I think you want something that's physically minimal.  Does that sound right?)

> I (and there are lots more like me) *don't* *like* the QFB, precisely
> because it is a *toolbar*. It was the *reason* I opened this bug, and the
> *reason* that Iago coded the Unified Search Addon

This wasn't clear to me from the title or the comments I read.

> >> The whole point of this addon is to eliminate the need for a huge toolbar,
> >> and give us back the little filter searchbox that can be placed wherever we
> >> want like TB 3.0- had.
> > That's fine, but that's not the point of this bug.
> *Yes it is*. Maybe you should go up and read the opening comment. I should
> know, I wrote it/opened this bug.

Ah, okay.  I don't really have a lot more to say on this bug, then, since I'm _far_ more interested in merging the GlodaBar and QFB…

> > (Or maybe it is, but that's not necessarily the direction that will get a
> > ui-r+ from me…)  The point of this bug (as I see it) is to move forward
> > with a better UI, not to bring back any specific UI from the past.
> Then you must have never bothered to read the opening comment. Too bad,
> because the loss of the movable search box was a huge blow for many, many
> people.

Perhaps it was, but I haven't heard that many people complaining about it.  (Maybe because Iago's add-on is satisfying their needs?)

> What really bugs me the most about this attitude of yours, Blake, is, most
> of the time in cases like this, developers will say something like - 'hey,
> it is free software, if you want the old behavior back, send us a patch, and
> as long as it is well written, works as advertised and doesn't introduce new
> bugs or change the desired *new* functionality, we'll work it in'.

It seems to me that that would lead to software that has everything but the kitchen sink, and is basically unusable out-of-the-box for anyone who didn't start using it ages ago, and thus is familiar with all the various options.  So part of my job is picking and choosing.  If people don't like 

> Well, the
> heavy lifting has already been done by Iago, and I'm sure Iago would be
> willing to work with you guys on any changes you wanted/needed to get this
> code properly integrated into the core. But it seems that you simply are
> unable to grasp the fact that not everyone is enamored with the new QFB as a
> total replacement for the little searchbox widget, and so cannot see the
> value/benefit. Sad, really.

I understand that not everyone likes changes we make, but I still haven't been convinced that the benefit of this would outweigh the cost.  (For you, I'm certain it does, but you're not the only Thunderbird user, nor even a typical Thunderbird user, so basing all my decisions on what works best for you isn't really a great idea. ;)  (And to forestall any accusations, I'm not a typical Thunderbird user either, and don't base my decisions on what works best for me.)

> Change for change's sake is not always for the best, and killing off the
> simple/movable message searchbox filter was a *mistake*, in mine and many
> others' opinions.

It may or may not have been.  The toolbar certainly seem easier to understand than having a textbox with some extra dropdown options.  I hear that you dislike the amount of space it takes up, but if you're happy with Iago's add-on, then I don't really understand why you're pushing to get it merged into core…

Thanks,
Blake.
(Reporter)

Comment 145

7 years ago
(In reply to Blake Winton [On vacation until Jan 9th] (:bwinton - Thunderbird UX) from comment #144)
> (In reply to Charles from comment #136)
> Our user-testing has shown that people have problems with the two search
> bars, and trying to figure out which one to use for what kind of searches. 
> Merging them into a single bar that sometimes does what you want and
> sometimes doesn't doesn't seem to me to be a good way to resolve that issue,
> and I think we can do better than that.

One option then would be to make it an either/or option - meaning, you can't have both, and I certainly have no problem with making the Quick Filter Toolbar the default one that is enabled, but allow the user to choice to *switch* to the Widget (movable/standalone searchbox that this extension provides), and pop-up a little warning explaining the difference between the two search options (Toolbar, or Widget) to the user when they change the option so it is clear what they are doing, and that enabling the widget would disable the Toolbar.

That way there is no possibility for confusion.

> That was another key combo didn't work out.  (I'm also not particularly
> happy with the current set of key combos, but if we ever manage to merge the
> QFB and Gloda bars, we can just use Ctrl-K, which is better, I think.)

Well, since I do not use GLODA for reasons already explained (it is absolutely *horrible* when used with very large IMAP stores), I certainly hope you aren't suggesting that GLODA will be something else I'll be *forced* to use at some point in the future...

> I'm not trying to bash the add-on (and said so to Iago in email), I'm just
> trying to point out things that I would want to see improved/fixed before
> landing something like this in Thunderbird.

Ok, and your hard work is much appreciated, even though sometimes it may not come out that way...

I had a few exchanges with Iago about simplifying the Widget, so hopefully I'll be able to post back here to try the new version soon and maybe some of your concerns will be addressed.

> Well, it wasn't my decision, so I'm not particularly offended.  (But I'm
> also not convinced that only ever adding things, and never taking things
> away is a path that will lead to good software.)

Definitely me neither... but this is not one of those times. I absolutely love this addon, and can't imagine Thunderbird without it.

>> Ok, Blake, no offense, but you simply cannot be serious. It *does* make it
>> more 'minimal', in the sense that it takes up less *space* *and* allows the
>> user the freedom to put the searchbox wherever they want and be able to
>> filter messages without having another huge toolbar taking up more precious
>> screen real estate, which is *the* *whole* *point*.

> I see that you and I are talking about two completely different things.
> 
> I don't care how much space we take up, if we get an easier to use program.

Sorry, again, no offense, but that comment just screams 'I know nothing about *good* UI design."

> You seem to not care how easy something is to use, as long as it takes up as
> little space as possible.

Well, I see essentially *zero* difference in 'ease of use' between the Toolbar and the Widget, beyond a 5 minute learning curve of:

"I installed the extension, so where is my old searchboix? Oh, I have to manually add it to a toolbar. There it is... now, how do I use it? Oh, I simply click into the searchbox, and the filter options magically appear."

How is that harder (aside from having to add it to a toolbar) than trying to figure out how to get the Toolbar to appear and disappear reliably?

> (Or, put another way, I want something that's conceptually minimal, whereas
> I think you want something that's physically minimal.  Does that sound
> right?)

Maybe, but I prefer *both*, actually... ;)

>> I (and there are lots more like me) *don't* *like* the QFB, precisely
>> because it is a *toolbar*. It was the *reason* I opened this bug, and the
>> *reason* that Iago coded the Unified Search Addon

> This wasn't clear to me from the title or the comments I read.

Read the first two sentences in my opening comment...

>> Then you must have never bothered to read the opening comment. Too bad,
>> because the loss of the movable search box was a huge blow for many, many
>> people.

> Perhaps it was, but I haven't heard that many people complaining about it. 
> (Maybe because Iago's add-on is satisfying their needs?)

Well there was a lot of noise on mozillazine and other sites when this happened, but it was a long time ago (3.1 I believe), so sure, the noise has died down because people either found the addon, or modified their behavior, but I also distinctly recall a lot of people saying they switched email clients (it was like a 'last straw' kind of thing).

> I understand that not everyone likes changes we make, but I still haven't
> been convinced that the benefit of this would outweigh the cost.

Well, in contrast, I honestly don't see the 'cost' in providing users the *option*.

>> Change for change's sake is not always for the best, and killing off the
>> simple/movable message searchbox filter was a *mistake*, in mine and many
>> others' opinions.

> It may or may not have been.  The toolbar certainly seem easier to
> understand than having a textbox with some extra dropdown options.

The panel drops down when needed (when the user clicks into the searchbox or a search term is active).

> I hear that you dislike the amount of space it takes up, but if you're happy
> with Iago's add-on, then I don't really understand why you're pushing to get it
> merged into core…

Because ianap, and if Iago decides he has better things to do with his time, it could easily die a horrible death, but if it is in the core code, it wouldn't.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of making this an either/or option that is off by default. I really don't see how that wouldn't satisfy your objections about confusion, and I honestly can't think of any other reason *not* to provide users the choice of the Toolbar or the Widget.

Anyway, at least thanks very much for taking the time to respond and make your case.

Comment 146

7 years ago
Hi,

thanks everyone for the passionate discussion. I normally refrain from these kinds of "me too"-comments because they add nothing. I thought adding myself to the cc and voting for the bug had been enough of a "me too" but apparently it's not enough to convince Blake that Charles isn't the only one with this issue and that he indeed IS waiting for more vocal complaints.

So, I hope you don't mind me weighing in here.

Yes, Gloda is absolutely horrible - in sooo many ways
Yes, I was considering to dump TB because of it but there's so many other battles to fight and no immediate replacement
No, Charles is not the only one VERY frustrated about the process

Thank you for your consideration.

Comment 147

7 years ago
Hi,

thanks everyone for the passionate discussion. I normally refrain from these kinds of "me too"-comments because they add nothing. I thought adding myself to the cc and voting for the bug had been enough of a "me too" but apparently it's not enough to convince Blake that Charles isn't the only one with this issue and that Blake indeed IS waiting for more vocal complaints.

So, I hope you don't mind me weighing in here.

Yes, Gloda is absolutely horrible - in sooo many ways
Yes, I was considering to dump TB because of it but there's so many other battles to fight and no immediate replacement
No, Charles is not the only one VERY frustrated about the process

Thank you for your consideration.

Comment 148

7 years ago
Things I passionately dislike (shall I say hate?) about Gloda or whatever it's called

- takes up precious screen real estate
- confusing UI
- ugly
- destroyed something that was working fine
- Ctrl+A has to be the most stupid choice possible for key combo, that's "Select all" everywhere else

I don't use Gloda, it's not the way I search.
(Reporter)

Comment 149

7 years ago
Ok, figured I'd upload the latest version of the Addon (still not approved on AMO because of some harmless errors showing in the console that Iago is working on correcting). This one fixed a bug I was experiencing where the Filter options (in the horizontal panel) were not working.
Attachment #577917 - Attachment is obsolete: true
(Reporter)

Comment 150

7 years ago
Also, after my conversation with Iago, I think he is going to be removing the optional Vertical menu (that I agree was confusing, but I never used it), which will mean that last button inside the searchbox (on  the right side) will be gone.

One other thing that causes confusion for us here in the office is, in spite of the fact that GLODA is disabled, the Addon still allows the user to toggle into Global Search mode, which does nothing when GLODA is disabled. I think he is going to fix it so that when GLODA is disabled, that button/icon for toggling between Filter and Global Search modes will not be displayed.

Comment 151

7 years ago
Hi every body,

I will work in next days in some news widget concepts, trying to simplify current widget (that is overloaded). I want too remove the needed of two modes on the widget mantaining the global suggestions when gloda enabled and some enhancements when disabled, and remove vertical menu and some buttons wih all this. But all this are ideas only now, i need concrete some tips and implementing it for testing.
Please be patient, and stay tunned ;-)

Thanks
(Reporter)

Comment 152

7 years ago
Thanks very much Iago... please don't hesitate to ping me if you would like feedback on any beta builds...
please can we agree that this bug is not about gloda and no one has ever made a statement about forcing it on users? dredging up gloda issues digresses. thanks.  That said, please add any technical or helpful information to relevant bugs, file a new bug, or post in a newsgroup - I've gloda bug lists on the wiki page of bugzilla queries under "global search/gloda/search all messages" https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Bug_Queries#Function-based_Queries
(Reporter)

Comment 154

7 years ago
(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #153)
> please can we agree that this bug is not about gloda

Yeppers...

> and no one has ever made a statement about forcing it on users?

Well, not directly, but Blake's comment about 'merging the Quick Filter Bar and GLODA' is what prompted my question...

I take it that what was meant was providing a dual action capability, similar to how the Unified Search allows you to perform both filtering, and Global Searches?
(In reply to Charles from comment #145)
> (In reply to Blake Winton [On vacation until Jan 9th] (:bwinton -
> Thunderbird UX) from comment #144)
> I had a few exchanges with Iago about simplifying the Widget, so hopefully
> I'll be able to post back here to try the new version soon and maybe some of
> your concerns will be addressed.
> 
> > Well, it wasn't my decision, so I'm not particularly offended.  (But I'm
> > also not convinced that only ever adding things, and never taking things
> > away is a path that will lead to good software.)
> 
> Definitely me neither... but this is not one of those times. I absolutely
> love this addon, and can't imagine Thunderbird without it.

this is the case for many addons, for many people.  Somewhere, there has been discussion about the standards bar for acceptance of addons into core.  perhaps someone could post a link so discussion can continue in that venue.

 
> >> Ok, Blake, no offense, but you simply cannot be serious. It *does* make it
> >> more 'minimal', in the sense that it takes up less *space* *and* allows the
> >> user the freedom to put the searchbox wherever they want and be able to
> >> filter messages without having another huge toolbar taking up more precious
> >> screen real estate, which is *the* *whole* *point*.
> 
> > I see that you and I are talking about two completely different things.
> > 
> > I don't care how much space we take up, if we get an easier to use program.
> 
> Sorry, again, no offense, but that comment just screams 'I know nothing
> about *good* UI design."

I suspect you take blake too literally, as we realistically aren't talking about gobs of space. Regardless, I don't see it implying anything about knowledge, but that the goals are different.


> >> Then you must have never bothered to read the opening comment. Too bad,
> >> because the loss of the movable search box was a huge blow for many, many
> >> people.
> 
> > Perhaps it was, but I haven't heard that many people complaining about it. 
> > (Maybe because Iago's add-on is satisfying their needs?)
> 
> Well there was a lot of noise on mozillazine and other sites when this
> happened, but it was a long time ago (3.1 I believe), so sure, the noise has
> died down because people either found the addon, or modified their behavior,
> but I also distinctly recall a lot of people saying they switched email
> clients (it was like a 'last straw' kind of thing).

good or bad, change always brings these types of comments.

FWIW, we see very few complaints or suggestions in getsatisfaction about global search - even though there is significant room for improvement, as the aforementioned bug lists illustrate.


> > I understand that not everyone likes changes we make, but I still haven't
> > been convinced that the benefit of this would outweigh the cost.
> 
> Well, in contrast, I honestly don't see the 'cost' in providing users the
> *option*.

there is *always* cost.  more code always costs.


ATM I am not in a position to comment further about specific merits of the addon although generally like it, even though I am using it on one of my PCS, so please don't take that as a criticism.

Comment 156

7 years ago
> > Definitely me neither... but this is not one of those times. I absolutely
> > love this addon, and can't imagine Thunderbird without it.
>
> this is the case for many addons, for many people. 

With one difference: this addon just re-adds functionality that was available in TB 2 and was removed in TB 3.
(Reporter)

Comment 157

7 years ago
(In reply to Frank Steiner from comment #156)
>>> Definitely me neither... but this is not one of those times. I absolutely
>>> love this addon, and can't imagine Thunderbird without it.

>> this is the case for many addons, for many people. 

> With one difference: this addon just re-adds functionality that was
> available in TB 2 and was removed in TB 3.

Precisely...

In fact, I have already approached Iago about the possibility of - *after* first simplifying things a bit and losing some of the clutter - incorporating the functionality of the 'View:...' widget too (the one that allows you to create Custom Saved Searches), which I also still must use, because of one feature: Persistent Views of folders - I can set some folders to always 'View: All' and some to 'View: Unread'...

So, if he can accomplish this, then incorporating Unified Search into the core code would *simplify* things (reduce redundancy and the resultant confusion).

I'll be opening another bug for this once I have a Screenshot done (of how the new widget would/could look) and a suggestion for how to incorporate the functionality in a way that makes sense.

Updated

6 years ago
Depends on: 788084

Comment 158

5 years ago
When can we hope for a fix for this regression?
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