218258 - (full-reply-header) Reply-to email lacks quoting of standard emailheaders

Status: NEW

(MailNews Core :: Composition, enhancement)

Description

[Rene Fennet]

User-Agent:       Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
Build Identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030701 

When replying to an email, the original comes inline, with only "Rene Fennet -
PTS EMEA ESG wrote". None of the standard email headers like Subject, Date,
From, To, CC are quoted. The lack of these headers makes is very difficult to
find out who send what to whom and when.

When forwarding an email, these headers and more _are_ included. The same should
happen when doing a Reply-to or Reply-to-all. See below for Forward example....


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Fwd: mozilla + wrapping text
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:14:53 -0400
From: Rene Fennet - PTS EMEA ESG <[e-mail]>
To: Mitch Dsouza <[e-mail]>

Reproducible: Always

Steps to Reproduce:
1.Select an email, select Reply-to, no email headers quoted.
2.Select same email, select Forward, email headers are quoted.
3.Reply-to should behave as Forward, with respect to quoting headers.

Actual Results:  
1.

Rene Fennet - PTS EMEA ESG wrote:
> 
> Mozilla 1.4
> Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030701

2.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Fwd: mozilla + wrapping text
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:14:53 -0400
From: Rene Fennet - PTS EMEA ESG <[e-mail]>
To: Mitch Dsouza <[e-mail]>
Cc: Mitch Dsouza <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>


Mozilla 1.4
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030701



Expected Results:  

Rene Fennet - PTS EMEA ESG wrote:
>
>Subject: Re: Fwd: mozilla + wrapping text
>Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:14:53 -0400
>From: Rene Fennet - PTS EMEA ESG <[e-mail]>
>To: Mitch Dsouza <[e-mail]>
>Cc: Mitch Dsouza <[e-mail]>
>
> Mozilla 1.4
> Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030701

Comment 1

[Bruce Davidson]

*** Bug 218321 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 2

[Jean-Christophe Coynel]

I am cross-posting this information from Bug 107884 :

The "forward" provides three different sets of headers (configured using
"mail.show_headers" = 1,2 or 3), which should satisfy most people. The confusing
part is that the "forward" and "reply" headers are different : The "reply" part
is done in nsMsgCompose.cpp, while the "forward" in mimedrft.cpp, for what it is
worth.

--JC

Comment 3

[Karsten Düsterloh]

The behaviour described here is by design.
If you *reply* to an email, you quote the /content/, trim it and comment it.

Why should those headers be included?
If you send the reply to the author, he will already know.
If you send the reply to someone else, it's actually no reply -
you better forward it.

You'd better expect a WONTFIX. ;-)

Comment 4

[holyboy]

(In reply to comment #3)
> The behaviour described here is by design.
> If you *reply* to an email, you quote the /content/, trim it and comment it.
> 
> Why should those headers be included?

becouse it's useful

> If you send the reply to the author, he will already know.
> If you send the reply to someone else, it's actually no reply -
> you better forward it.

I sometimes need to forward full quoted coversation to someone else - in ms
outlook it contain all needed headers. in thunderbird still not!

this is the ONLY bug in mozilla mail which stops me from moving from outlook
express to thunderbird....

pls don't call bugs the features..

Comment 5

[R.K.Aa.]

*** Bug 251998 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 6

[Jim Ronback]

Help! My wife will not move from Outlook Express to Mozilla Mail until this
bug/missing feature is fixed.

When composing a reply to an email, after "XYZ wrote:", there is no header info
displayed, i.e., Subject, Date/ time , From, To. This info is very important
when composing a response. It is especially important when trying to decode a
long sequence of replies sent back and forth between two parties. This is
especially important if you are conducting business with many different clients.
Also when this header info is missing it can become confusing as to what order
the responses were made depending if the responses was inserted before or after
the quote.

The header info displayed should be the same info that is displayed when you are
forwarding a letter inline.

Comment 7

[Felix Miata]

The header info displayed should NOT be the same info that is displayed when you
are forwarding a letter inline. If that's what you need, then forward it.

The behavior of OE & Outlook here, like top posting, is another M$ scourge of
the internet, usurping well established behavior. Repeating the author email
name & address in a reply makes no sense, since it's duplicated precisely in the
To: field. Repeating your own email name and address is pure nonsense. Repeating
the subject in the body is redundant, since it too is duplicated in the Subject
field. We already have a way to include the timestamp of the message replied to
in the <wrote> line: (user_pref("mailnews.display.original_date", true);).

If this bug is to be fixed, it needs a pref which is off by default, and
preferably hidden.

Comment 8

[Jim Ronback]

I agree in eliminating redundant information. The ONLY key item that is missing
is the date stamp with "[e-mail] wrote:". Felix Miata in the previous comment
said "We already have a way to include the timestamp of the message replied to
in the <wrote> line: (user_pref("mailnews.display.original_date", true);)". 
I'm unable to find that option anywhere under preferences. Please tell me how to
make the date stamp appear when composing a reply. Thanks

Comment 9

[Gary Melendez]

It is often the case that you need to reply to an email and ADD someone else 
as a recipient. Unless the original header is quoted, the added recipient 
cannot tell who is aware of the conversation or when the original exchange 
took place. Also, one of the principal conversants (the To: and From: 
addressees) may not have used 'reply to all' and thus the original CC: 
recipients are no longer listed in the email.

Email is no longer what it once was - a quick means of electronic 
communication between individuals. Email has come a long way since the days of 
ArpaNet. It has now become the standard method of business communications. As 
such, our preconceived notions of what is 'right' or what is 'wrong' in email 
traffic needs to be a little more flexible. I need to be able to forward an 
email conversation (not just the current email but all emails in the trail) to 
a person not previously on any of the emails and that person needs to be able 
to tell:
   - who said what to whom,
   - when they said it, and
   - who else 'heard' them say it.

And the person needs to be able to know those things for each quoted email.

I don't think this is a 'bug' in Thunderbird or Mozilla Mail, but it is a very 
necessary enhancement. Having it optional is good. Having the option hidden is 
not. If we want Thunderbird and Mozilla Mail to claim more of the mainstream 
population of users, this modification is essential. It is also essential for 
all of those business users who now use email as the preferred method of 
record communications - and that's a very large number. I'm one of them.

Comment 10

[Felix Miata]

Since two mailnews bugs have been duped to this, it is no longer TB only.

As is the usual case, hidden preferences are set by either adding the line in
question to user.js (create with text editor if you don't already have it), or
enabling via about:config.

When messages are quoted in standard (non-M$) fashion, including standard quote
marks (omitted by default or impossible to include by M$ software), who said
what to whom is generlly as apparent as need be, as is when, if the from lines
include the applicable timestamp reference.

We are already doing too much to promote "Jeopardy" style email by facilitating
top-posting. This, if fixed, should not be the default, as it would do the same.

Comment 11

[Meaker]

(In reply to comment #10)
> 
> As is the usual case, hidden preferences are set by either adding the line in
> question to user.js (create with text editor if you don't already have it), or
> enabling via about:config.

Are you saying we can enable this via the config file? Give exact details please
-- it's a VITAL enhancement for mozmail.
 
> When messages are quoted in standard (non-M$) fashion, including standard quote
> marks (omitted by default or impossible to include by M$ software), who said
> what to whom is generlly as apparent as need be, as is when, if the from lines
> include the applicable timestamp reference.

Not sure what you are going on about here, but let me underline what has already
been said about this lacuna on Moz's features: it /HAS/ to be added! Email is
now used as proof of conversational timing in legal matters, and these headers
should appear. Sometimes the original email gets lost, and the headers in the
reply are all that remains to tell when it was sent. Sometimes you reply to the
sender many months or even years after he/she sends a message, and the only way
to reference this is with decent inserted headers. And BTW, if headers are
inserted before the replied-to text, there should be an option to remove the ">"
marks that indent quoted text. The replied-to text can be headed up by the 
"From, To, Date, etc headers. It works clearly in other email clients.

> We are already doing too much to promote "Jeopardy" style email by facilitating
> top-posting. This, if fixed, should not be the default, as it would do the 
> > same.

Please, can we put the M$ bashing and Luddism to one side and get this feature
in? Mozmail is starting to kick ass with the new Global Inbox feature. I've
/finally/ dropped M$ Lookout Express for it in the last 3 months, and I'm a very
happy camper. But this bug/enhancement is the LAST MUST-HAVE MISSING FEATURE
(sorry for the shout).

Comment 12

[Mike Cowperthwaite]

*** Bug 240518 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 13

[Mike Cowperthwaite]

*** Bug 275730 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 14

[Boying Lu]

Attachment: add message header info when replying

This patch doest two things:
1. change the default value of mailnews.reply_header_type to 5, which means add
original message header info when replying a message.

2. add codes support this

Comment 15

[Mike Cowperthwaite]

I disagree with changing the default.

Comment 16

[Doug Wright]

(In reply to comment #15)
> I disagree with changing the default.

ditto. Include the facility to do it, but please hide it away!

Comment 17

[Boying Lu]

Do you mean keep the original defaul settings of mailnews.reply_header_type and
if user wants these feature, he can enable this feature in user.js?

Comment 18

[Mike Cowperthwaite]

Exactly.

Bug 218558 is a request for a different default.

Bug 171822 is about providing a UI for the preference.

And bug 258614 and bug 275195 are about Even More Options for what to put in the 
reply header.

Comment 19

[Jim Ronback]

It is not clear what the default will look like. If it is the same as what
appeared before, e.g., sender's name with no date stamp, it is not acceptable
since different users have different conventions as to whether their replies are
inserted at the beginning or the end of the previous message. If there are
multiple users in a long chain of replies it becomes vital to sort out the
chronological sequence.
A typical naive user should not have to mess about in changing user.js . You
need a User interface with a radio button to make the style selection simple and
fool proof for the reply to contain previous sender's info to appear, eg., From:
..., To:..., Date:... Subject....    In my replies I often edit my own subject
to make it different from what the sender used.

Comment 20

[Boying Lu]

(In reply to comment #18)
> Exactly.
> 
> Bug 218558 is a request for a different default.
> 
> Bug 171822 is about providing a UI for the preference.
> 
> And bug 258614 and bug 275195 are about Even More Options for what to put in the 
> reply header.

But when these features will be added? 

Comment 21

[Mike Cowperthwaite]

*** Bug 294203 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 22

[Rishi Chopra]

There is a workaround for this issue; try using the "Thunderbird Reset Quote
Header Extension".  You can find a little information about it and a link to it
here:

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=65413

Comment 23

[Scott MacGregor]

Comment on attachment 178446 [details] [diff] [review]
add message header info when replying 

Thanks for putting this patch together.

1) fields get appened even if they don't have a value. We should only add
fields that have a vlaue. i.e. if i reply to a message that was sent to just
me, the reply header lists a To: me and an empty cc line.

2) The default needs to stay as it is. Power uses or enterprise folks who want
this can set the pref themselves.

Comment 24

[Edgardo]

This is VERY important !
Is it planned for the 1.5 release ?

When replying, Subject, From, Date, To, and CC, should show up by default.
The second best scenario would be to have an option at the top of the list in:
  Tools - Options - Composition - General

Comment 25

[Magnus Melin [:mkmelin]]

How is this different from bug 67089?

Comment 26

[Edgardo]

(In reply to comment #25)
> How is this different from bug 67089?
> 

67089 was about the body rather than the header.
That is a request for replying without adding characters to every line of the original text (quotes). BTW, I also support that request.

On that thread (67089) "Comment #9 From Eric Moret  2006-01-13 17:35 PST" is a nice workaround for this bug (218258) for very sofisticated users.
We still need an easy solution for this issue for most users. It can not require editing a configuration file.

Comment 27

[Thomas Dwyer III]

Do those against this feature work in a business environment
where e-mail threads frequently involve multiple people,
multiple replies, and a to/cc list that changes (sometimes
several times) during the same conversation?  It's difficult
for me to understand why there is so much resistance to
including the unmodified date/from/subject/to/cc headers by
default in the quoted reply.  I would appreciate it if someone
could please enlighten me.

See comment #9 from Gary Melendez.  I understand that a simple
"Hey, let's have lunch today at ..." from one person to another
doesn't need a reply that includes full headers from the original
message.  But that isn't what we're talking about here.  We are
trying to address the (very common) scenario where someone gets
added to the to/cc list of a long e-mail thread and needs to
figure out who said what, when, and who else saw it.  Using the
forward button doesn't work--that means one-way communication to
the new guy giving him no convenient ability to participate in
the conversation (since his reply-all will only go to the one
person who did the forwarding).

Comment 28

[Mike Cowperthwaite]

*** Bug 325415 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 29

[rabbitambulance]

Reply to comment #3:
In production environments this becomes important:
1. When you're trying to reconstruct a decision-process months later by looking at the back and forth of emails
2. When you reply to an email and add a couple of people to CC who you think should also be in the loop.
I think a way to customize your reply-header (and be it only by having a "verbose reply header" checkbox somewhere) is very important, especially now that the Quote Header Extension stopped working (and there doesn't seem to be an update in sight). This is one of the very few things Outlook still does better than TB.

Comment 30

[Mike Cowperthwaite]

*** Bug 338336 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 31

[Rachel]

I agree that if you're only replying from one person to another, the headers aren't necessary, however, I am in a business/production environment where I very often use the "Reply All" feature, but then need to add another recipient.  I also use the Reply several times, and add a recipient.  The recipient that I added, doesn't know when the other person sent me the message unless I type it in myself, which is a big pain.  Sometimes I can forward, because the original sender doesn't need to be in on the conversation, but more times than not, the original sender and the added recipient need to be in on the conversation, and it is important to know what got said, when, and who said it.  If you want to make it optional, that's fine, but please make it available to those who want it!!

Comment 32

[Rachel]

I googled around and found this workaround extension, that works fairly well.  If the message was sent to more than one recipient, and you do a Reply All, the From field only shows one name, however, but at least it's a start!  You can download it here:

http://www.extensionsmirror.nl/index.php?showtopic=2626

Comment 33

[Andreas Kleinert]

>It is especially important when trying to decode a
>long sequence of replies sent back and forth between two parties.

Yes, the point is, that sometimes you need to track back a whole conversation - and this conversation may be forwarded back and forth between different people. 

Happens everyday in the office.

What I currently need to do as workaround is to FORWARD the eMail first, then do a parallel REPLY TO (ALL) and copy the content from the first to the second eMail. Otherwise I would have to re-enter all TO'ed and CC'ed people again manually.

This simple sucks. It should at least be available as configurable OPTION, even if some avoid-redundancy-freaks don't want it ;-) (those may just switch it off).

Still present in v1.5.0.5

Comment 34

[Mike Cowperthwaite]

*** Bug 209632 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 35

[Mike Cowperthwaite]

*** Bug 359176 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 36

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

See bug 13818, which is more general (configurable)

Comment 37

[Raul Aguero]

Any news about this bug? We really need this essential feature!

Thanks to all.

Comment 38

[Andreas Kleinert]

Yes, this is annoying.

What I currently do to workaround this problem is to:

- start a forward
- copy either the header or all recipients
- so it becomes a reply with headers

The point is, in business communication, you need to look up the date and time and all the people in CC from a previously reply that is quoted within some other reply - or you would like to prove some miss of some deadline using some email forwards.

Anyone please tell me, why this is such an exotic idea. Outlook does it since ages.

And no, I don't want to change this in Thunderbird settings, like suggested in bug 13818 somewhere.

Comment 39

[Raul Aguero]

There is a workaround through an extension called Change quote and reply format. It works! 

But still we need this. Moreover, the extension should need some more options (I don't like the default format, I'd like to control the font attributes, and I would prefer the email addresses optionally not to be shown). And I would like it to be a Thunderbird option, not an add-on. But it is a start!

Comment 44

[rsx11m]

(In reply to comment #32)
> I googled around and found this workaround extension, that works fairly well. 
> http://www.extensionsmirror.nl/index.php?showtopic=2626

This link is obsolete, the Change Quote extension provides this functionality and is available from https://nic-nac-project.org/~kaosmos/changequote-en.html

A templated configuration option with a couple of base templates (including this one) would likely provide the most flexible and satisfactory solution.

Comment 45

[Tony Sosa]

It's five years later.  Five years.  :-O  Is this feature planned for the next release?

Certain military contractors and attorneys with whom I correspond insist that
reply headers like above are required for audit trails. Messages that I've sent
to them are either bounced or unanswered.

Comment 46

[Raul Aguero]

I use the "Change Quote and Reply Format" 0.5 add-on. Works well, in my opinion could allow for more customization. 

I voted for this feature. I'd love to see it natively implemented in TB 3.0, or 3.1, or any. 

Thanks.

Comment 47

[R Benz]

(In reply to comment #32)
> I googled around and found this workaround extension, that works fairly well. 
> If the message was sent to more than one recipient, and you do a Reply All, the
> From field only shows one name, however, but at least it's a start!  You can
> download it here:
> 
> http://www.extensionsmirror.nl/index.php?showtopic=2626

Updated link info for Thunderbird Reset Quote Header 0.4.3:

Forum info: http://forum.addonsmirror.net/index.php?showtopic=1322

Extension: http://forum.addonsmirror.net/ext/extthunderbird/TB_Reset_Quote_Header_0.4.3.xpi

Comment 48

[Tom Pringle]

This extension does not appear to work with Thunderbird 3.0b2.  

Is the source code available to the extension?  

Does anyone know if this bug will be fixed in Thunderbird?

Comment 49

[R Benz]

(In reply to comment #48)
> This extension does not appear to work with Thunderbird 3.0b2.  
> 
> Is the source code available to the extension?  
> 
> Does anyone know if this bug will be fixed in Thunderbird?

Version 0.4.3 works great with Thunderbird 2 if you change the maxvers in the XPI.  Try updating the maxvers for Thunderbird 3.

Version 0.4.3: http://forum.addonsmirror.net/ext/extthunderbird/TB_Reset_Quote_Header_0.4.3.xpi

Author's Extensions: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/user/2058

Version 0.3.1: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/760

Comment 50

[Tom Pringle]

Thank you.  I tried that last night and it does work but I have since run into a bug which occasionally truncates the message.   I guess it is usable despite this.

I don't quite understand why Thunderbird developers don't see an Outlook compatibility mode as a high priority.  I imagine there are many potential users who work in large companies where outlook top posting is the standard and Thunderbird's posting behavior is just not viable.  

The tone of this bug journal suggests to me that Thunderbird developers don't really think supporting an outlook dominated email environment is important.   I would think that providing an alternative to users in such environments is a significant opportunity to expand the Thunderbird user base.

Comment 51

[rsx11m]

FYI: The new default for Thunderbird 3.0 (bug 438375) is to include the date and time in the attribution line (header type 2). Also, a patch is posted for a templated solution (bug 107884) which would allow the formatting as intended here and actually provide it as a default template (without changing the default reply header type, but it would be offered as an option). That patch also satisfies conditional items as requested in comment #23. The assignee there has to come back though and post an updated patch for review.

Comment 52

[Tom Pringle]

(In reply to comment #51)

Thanks for the information.  I guess that is good news but based on the bug 107884 it seemed like all was left to do in early Feb was incorporate a slight change and commit the code.  If that has not yet happened, (I conclude not since I don't see this functionality in 3.0b2), is it still reasonable to think this will happen in time for Thunderbird 3.0 release?

Comment 53

[rsx11m]

That's probably a question you would have to ask in bug 107884 rather than here, I don't know if the assignee (Makoto Kato) follows this discussion.

It is my understanding that new features are still accepted until beta 3, for which the slushy string freeze is currently scheduled for April 21. If patches with string changes will be permitted after that cut-off I can't tell. As you point out, progress on the patch in bug 107884 was good before it stalled, so chances are it could still make it in time for 3.0.

Comment 55

[Venkat]

I am using SeaMonkey 2.0 and I see a need for this feature; the "reset-quote-header" add-on does not work with SeaMonkey (and TB3.0, I think), so no alternative appears to be available for this critical capability.

Comment 56

[Robert Kaiser]

Not blocking SeaMonkey releases for what isn't a regression.

Comment 57

[TonyR]

When doing a reply or reply-all, is there any chance we can have the option to get something like the forward in-line:


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Subject goes here
Date: 	 Sat, 4 Oct 2008 12:00:25 -0700
From: 	 [e-mail]
To: 	 [e-mail]
CC: 	 [e-mail]

Previous Message Chain goes here ...................


Many of the personnel at my company use Thunderbird, but we are under extreme pressure to use an e-mail client that supports ability to see the e-mail chain, who got the e-mail sent to them, when it was sent, and who else was copied.

At the very least please make this format an option.  I'm a big fan of Thunderbird, but if this doesn't become an available (even as an option) it simply isn't viable in today's environment(s) - personal and business.

Bottom line is not implementing these types of features will reduce the number of Thunderbird users and ultimately erode Mozilla's great gains the last few years.

Tony R.

Comment 58

[irneb]

Hoped that TB3 had this fixed. Does anyone know of a plugin which could fix this?

Comment 59

[TonyR]

irneb - some earlier versions of "changequote" didn't work with TB3, however, I did try a newer version, "changequote-0.6.3.2" and, once configured, it does seem to give the desired results.

~Tony

Comment 60

[irneb]

I've got some problems with this. However doing a further search on the add-ons, I came across this:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/14662

It seems to work fine with TB3. You can even design your own new / reply / forward headers by pasting the html code into the options dialog. Even have variants per account.

Comment 61

[gator]

I really cannot believe this option never made it into TB3.  It's a critical need by business users, and really restrains Thunderbird's marketshare (in my opinion at least).

Anyway, here's the temporary solution that's working well for me in TB3, which should help anyone out there looking for this.

1) Based on the previous poster's (irneb) suggestion, install SmartTemplate at https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/14662

2) In preferences, go to the "Reply" tab, check ALL checkboxes, and paste the following in the box:

<br/>
<br/>
<font face="Arial" size="2">-------------------<br/>
<b>From:</b> %from%
<b>Sent:</b> %date%
<b>To:</b> %to%{
<b>Cc:</b> %cc%}
<b>Subject:</b> %subject%</font>
<br/>
<br/>

3) Create a /chrome/userContent.css file in your Thunderbird profile directory

4) Paste the following code in the userContent.css file:

blockquote[type=cite], blockquote {
   padding: 0 !important;
   margin: 0 !important;
   border: none !important;
}

Comment 62

[Hemant Mohan]

The To and cc list are not getting formatted properly with the workaround in comment 61:
Here is the output I am getting:
<quote>
To: User1 Name1 <[e-mail]>, User2 Name2User2 Name2

 <[e-mail]>
Cc: User3 Name3 <user3.xyz.com>, User4 Name4user4 Name4

 <[e-mail]>, User5 Name5 <[e-mail]>, User6

 Name6user6

 <[e-mail]>

</quote>

There is lot of name mangling for User2, User4, User6.  Also lots of new lines have been added both in To and cc lists.

I also experimented by removing the html option and tried to use 
From: %from%
Sent: %date%
To: %to%{
Cc: %cc%}
Subject: %subject%

but still I got similar results

Comment 64

[Raymond]

I don't know why this very little modification has never been done (create a quote-header with a reply same as with a forward).
Perhaps because the votes for bugs are not important enough compared with exotic gadgets created when a new version is created.
Perhaps we should pay someone ?

Comment 65

[Rene Fennet]

Unbelievable. Countdown to 7 years is commencing.
How can I stop bugzilla from sending me updates on this BUG ?
I'm the poor sole that submitted it ....

Comment 66

[rsx11m]

Since you are the reporter you can't easily remove yourself from the list. However, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email allows you to disable notifications for specific categories, which would apply to all bugs you've filed though.

I agree with comment #64 that adding this feature would be straight-forward, and it was also suggested as a default template in bug 107884. However, given the mood there and that the patch ended up stalling, I don't see much incentive for someone to take this bug and work on it. Raymond: Current workaround is the extension mentioned in comment #61, which however may not work for SeaMonkey (you could check with the developer of that extension if it can be made work).

Comment 67

[digocesar]

I need this implementation too.

Comment 69

[Andrea]

When you consider "the difference of Thunderbird's behavior in replying vs
forwarding an e-mail" you should try to take in mind the behavior of the most used e-mail clients (e.g. Outlook 2003, Outlook 2007, Outlook Express, Windows Live Mail, Opera Mail, etc.) that is the same in the two described situations: replying or forwarding a message you obtain the same result with the same format. It's a critical need by business users, and really restrains Thunderbird's marketplace. So, if you want to attract users of such kind of e-mail clients and convince them to switch to Thunderbird, you should take this fact in consideration.

Also installing SmartTemplate add-on doesn't solve completely the problem because forwarded e-mail content in any case is not "embodied" like replied e-mail content.

Thunderbird should have the same (identical) behavior in replying and in forwarding an e-mail by design and by default.

Comment 70

[Jim Ronback]

It's not clear if I can add more than 1 vote for this bug to bump up its priority and urgency for this 7 year old bug. It says "1 vote used out of 1000 allowed". How do I increase my vote count?

Comment 72

[quentinj]

Heh 7 years.  Typical open source dev cycle whereby there no 'true' project owner and only developers that do what they want instead of listening to the people who actually use the product.  

Come on guys!!!  Prove that open source can be like the hype is, all you gotta do is add it as an 'option' it doesn't even have to be default behaviour!!

Comment 73

[Tony Sosa]

Over 8 years later...

I chatted up two separate Thunderbird developers to see if they'd take on this fix. Both flatly denied my humble request because of severe anti-Microsoft sentiment.  I even told one guy if he fixed it, I'd send him a kick-ass Christmas gift. He declined, politely explaining that he didn't celebrate holidays. O_o

Comment 74

[Petr Vones]

(In reply to gator from comment #61)
> 1) Based on the previous poster's (irneb) suggestion, install SmartTemplate
> at https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/14662

The addon no longer works in TB 13.0

Comment 75

[R Benz]

As a workaround, the extension "Change quote and reply format" version 0.7.4.2 still works with TB 13.0.1.  See http://nic-nac-project.de/~kaosmos/changequote-en.html, http://nic-nac-project.de/~kaosmos/changequote-0.7.4.2.xpi

Comment 76

[Raymond]

"severe anti-Microsoft sentiment" ... OK That's the final reason.
Therefore, SM or Thundebird are NOT created to be used by BUSINESS people !!!

Comment 77

[digocesar]

(In reply to Raymond from comment #76)
> Thundebird are NOT created to be used by BUSINESS people !!!

And you say this with pride!? People want to use softwares with the best functionalities. Only because Microsoft have a good functionality the TB can not have the same? Is because of this kind of thought that the open-source software is always inferior than business software!

Comment 78

[Raymond]

Perhaps you did not understand why a said "SM or Thundebird are NOT created to be used by BUSINESS people" ...... It's just because business people appreciate to have a email-header quoted. For a business people the quote must be a full quote when forwardind and ALSO when replying.

Comment 79

[Rob]

I agree with Raymond and also know many others that I have suggested Thunderbird to that have tried and then ditched it plainly because it doesn't show this information and that means when they look back through email chains they can't see who has been copied in on a certain email. 

This is not about wanting to be the same as Microsoft Outlook (although they relate it to that) it is about having usefull information on the email for when you need to look back and see who has been sent an email etc... 

Unfortunately this is a show stopper when it comes to businesses (or people in many businesses) using Thunderbird. To quote my old boss "What ever that **** is that you are using for an email client that can't log basic info... STOP USING IT!"

May seem harsh but there was a conflict between companies and the key email that was one I had sent didn't have this info on.

Comment 80

[Christopher W. Curtis]

Please note that this bug is blocked by bug 107884 so adding more comments here helps little. Bug 107884 needs an updated patch to make progress.

Also note that this has nothing to do with "Business" or "Outlook", etc. The problem, to me, is about public versus private communication. In public, such as mailing lists, there are other tools that can handle the jobs of threading and attribution. In private, all this meta-data has to be carried around in the message itself in case a new person is introduced into the conversation.

It would be nice if the people writing extensions would work on the bugs instead, but they are the only ones who get to make that decision.

Comment 81

[rsx11m]

(In reply to Christopher W. Curtis from comment #80)
> Please note that this bug is blocked by bug 107884 so adding more comments
> here helps little. Bug 107884 needs an updated patch to make progress.

Just for clarification: The dependency indicates that a solution for bug 107884 would/might also solve the issue here (along with various others), whereas a separate stand-alone implementation here in this bug is nevertheless possible (weak dependency). Thus, nobody should feel discouraged to propose a patch here, which may be obsoleted later by a more general solution elsewhere, but would provide a fix for the time being (and at this time, bug 107884 has definitely stalled).

> It would be nice if the people writing extensions would work on the bugs
> instead, but they are the only ones who get to make that decision.

Agreed - extensions are certainly helpful, but it would be good to see more of such contributions (especially those working around high-profile issues) ending up in the actual code.

Comment 82

[Raymond]

Just an idea to have email-headers quoted in reply the same as with forwarding.
the developpers may copy the forward-code replacing the reply-code. the only difference is to add "Re:" instead of "Fwd:" before the original Subject.

Comment 83

[Tony Sosa]

Ten years later!

I've been through three employers of substantially sized organizations that could not utilize Thunderbird because of missing reply headers.

I'd like to promote open source, cross-platform solutions, but this is ridiculous.

Comment 84

[rsx11m]

(In reply to gator from comment #61)
> 1) Based on the previous poster's (irneb) suggestion, install SmartTemplate
> at https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/14662

That add-on is no longer supported, for current Thunderbird versions its successor is needed:

> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/smarttemplate4/

With a little luck, the code provided in comment #61 will still do the trick.

Comment 85

[Raymond]

People prefer that SM do the trick instead of:
- A not working workaround.
- A plusgin who will not work at next release.

I don't believe that copying the code from the "forward" coding to the "reply" coding is a so great work.
Permitting to have a STANDARD quoting.

Comment 86

[Roger Lynn]

(In reply to Raymond from comment #85)
> - A not working workaround.

The workaround of copying the quoted text from an inline forward of the email to a reply to the email works for me.

> - A plusgin who will not work at next release.

Plugins breaking on every release seems to be less of a problem than it was, although it does still happen sometimes.

> Permitting to have a STANDARD quoting.

Mozilla does standard quoting. The problem is that it needs to work with Microsoft products which don't use standard quoting.

Comment 87

[Raymond]

For the copy/paste from the pseudo-forward -  i agree.

For the standard quoting i did not agree.

Tell me why:

Guy Tocquin wrote, On 10/11/2013 22:22:

is more standard than:

>Subject: Re: Fwd: mozilla + wrapping text
>Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:14:53 -0400
>From: Rene Fennet - PTS EMEA ESG <[e-mail]>
>To: Mitch Dsouza <[e-mail]>
>Cc: Mitch Dsouza <[e-mail]>

Comment 88

[Tony Mechelynck [:tonymec]]

(In reply to Raymond from comment #87)
> For the copy/paste from the pseudo-forward -  i agree.
> 
> For the standard quoting i did not agree.
> 
> Tell me why:
> 
> Guy Tocquin wrote, On 10/11/2013 22:22:
> 
> is more standard than:
> 
> >Subject: Re: Fwd: mozilla + wrapping text
> >Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:14:53 -0400
> >From: Rene Fennet - PTS EMEA ESG <[e-mail]>
> >To: Mitch Dsouza <[e-mail]>
> >Cc: Mitch Dsouza <[e-mail]>

The Mozillazine KB article "Reply header settings" mentions, under http://kb.mozillazine.org/Reply_header_settings#Extensions , an extension "Change quote and reply format" (for Thunderbird but not SeaMonkey) which seems to fit your needs exactly. Its install.rdf mentions a maxVersion of only 9.* however, so all due caution is in order.

It also mentions the smarttemplate4 extension (already mentioned by rsx11m in comment #84), which is listed at AMO as supporting "SeaMonkey 2.0 and later, Thunderbird 3.1.7 and later", and that one at least has not been dropped by its author -- its latest version was released to AMO on September 14 and I also see activity about it at bugzilla.mozdev.org.

Comment 89

[Raymond]

Anyway, i the "Forward" action do it, why the "Reply" action cannot do it ?

Comment 91

[chrizilla]

based on comments above too numerous to cite

Comment 96

[Cliff_G]

Having read some but not all! of the above conversation, I'd like to point out some in the thread have said that they or others won't use TB unless a full reply header format is available. Were it not for the add-on ReplyWithHeader, I would also not be using TB, as it is standard in business usage, and helpful in other usage.

The outlook-style reply header (From/date/to-subject-cc etc) may be overkill and semantically not a logically pure entity, but in the business world it is almost universal (save perhaps for Mac users), and generally used in most web mailers, or at least they have that option easily selectable. Mobile apps such as Bluemail have a per-account option on this.

In the end, if we want Thunderbird user base to grow, the lack of this feature (other than in an add-on whose existence and name are nor obvious) HAS and WILL put new users off. If you want more Thunderbird users, don't put them off by not providing what to them is a basic and familiar feature.

As to the semantics of needing the info in the Reply header, many a time I have been missing the necessary info, since someone in the middle of an email chain uses the basic header and I can't track properly what has been said by whom and to whom. So it's over-simplistic to say that "the original sender will (always) know."

The code is already there in the Forward header, so integrating it for Reply should be easy, and a simple "full or basic" Reply Header option added to Preferences.

Could we get this 22 year old issue resurrected and reconsidered? As I say, help build the user base by not putting them off with an unfamiliar change.

Thanks

Comment 97

[Cliff_G]

(In reply to Felix Miata from comment #7)

The behavior of OE & Outlook here, like top posting, is another M$ scourge of
the internet, usurping well established behavior.

It is now today (2025) more well established than the old basic header. You may dislike MS, but if people are used to what they provide, why limit the acceptability of TB?

And as for:

Repeating the author email name & address in a reply makes no sense,
since it's duplicated precisely in the To: field. Repeating your own email
name and address is pure nonsense. Repeating the subject in the body
is redundant, since it too is duplicated in the Subject field. We already
have a way to include the timestamp of the message replied to
in the <wrote> line: (user_pref("mailnews.display.original_date", true);).

...all if this is semantically theoretically true, but in the real world email chains get really long and complex with extra people added in, people chop certain bits (often the old mails or some irrelevancies) of an email chain out and the history gets untraceable, people change the subject in the middle of an email chain, others in the email chain may not be able to see the allegedly "repeated" sender's email, and in a corporate environment there also needs to be as clear as possible an audit trail.

Those who propose the full header are not saying it should replace the basic one, just that they need the option, or they will be stuck with Outlook.

Let's not limit the much-needed uptake of TB after all the fine work currently being done.