Reorganise Mozilla news hierarchy (tracking bug) (npm usenet newsgroups)

RESOLVED FIXED

Status

mozilla.org
Discussion Forums
P3
normal
RESOLVED FIXED
17 years ago
11 years ago

People

(Reporter: gerv, Assigned: gerv)

Tracking

({meta})

Details

(URL)

(Assignee)

Description

17 years ago
The netscape.public.mozilla.* news hierarchy needs renaming as detailed at the 
above URL. The new names were arrived at through community consultation. This is 
urgent for several reasons, primarily that the Netscape == Mozilla confusion the 
names cause lead to loads of misplaced, annoying and unwanted posts.

Gerv
(Assignee)

Updated

17 years ago
Blocks: 58670, 59398, 59522

Comment 1

17 years ago
I'd like to use this opportuity to move to Mailman based mailing lists, running 
from tegu.mozilla.org (aka lists.mozilla.org). Marking 62369 dependent.

ETA for these is end of January/early February.
Severity: major → normal
Status: NEW → ASSIGNED
Depends on: 62369

Comment 2

17 years ago
> ETA for these is end of January/early February.

Too late. We are flooded with offtopic posts.

Comment 3

17 years ago
Too bad. Our change control starts in a week or so and we have no way making 
this happen before it. We need to:

a) register new hierarchy, distribute pgp keys etc. This will take at least a 
week to propagate.
b) we want to tie this to our new news architecture in which deployment starts 
in January (current news.mozilla.org is only SS20 and we don't want to use it 
much longer). Hardware is ordered.
c) I want to get rid of SmartList and convert to Mailman (with LDAP patches 
later)
d) Holidays are upon us. News admin is going to sabattical, too.

Comment 4

17 years ago
> Our change control starts in a week

Can't you postpose the move to new servers by 2 weeks or so?

Comment 5

17 years ago
The mailing list for each of the mozilla newsgroups should also as part of the
subscription process notify the subscriber that 'This is not a mailing list for
the support or discussion of any Netscape or third party product.  Support for
products should be given by the distributors of those products.'  Or similar
wording.

Comment 6

17 years ago
Simon: that will be very easy in Mailman.
Ben: move to new servers is postponed already quite a long time. I think we had 
things drafted 6 months ago and finally we are getting those. They'll come 
unrelated to this ticket and it just makes more sense to start these in the new 
architecture and not do twice the work.

Updated

17 years ago
Assignee: rko → marki
Status: ASSIGNED → NEW

Comment 7

17 years ago
assigining to marki
(Assignee)

Comment 8

17 years ago
marki, risto - what news, here? Are we still expecting to complete this by the 
end of January, or has that date slipped?

Gerv

Comment 9

17 years ago
I'll let Markus/Mark answer more detailed but I think we have servers waiting 
for installations.
(Assignee)

Updated

17 years ago
Blocks: 65451
(Assignee)

Comment 10

17 years ago
Lads, any chance of another status update? How are your shiny new servers? :-)

Gerv

Comment 11

17 years ago
mbaur says the machine has arrived but we're waiting on the raid array.

Comment 12

17 years ago
Moving to nobody until we have better picture of where we'll be going with 
mozilla.org support by IC.
Assignee: marki → nobody
(Assignee)

Comment 13

17 years ago
Whoa there! Can someone please explain what's going on here? A lot of people 
have been waiting on a resolution for this problem for several months now, and I 
thought we were close to one. What are these doubts about Netscape IS supporting 
mozilla.org?

Gerv

Comment 14

17 years ago
Moving to nobody is a shock! Please explain!

Comment 15

17 years ago
Don't panic! I moved _all_ server operations tickets to nobody, not just this.

That's because we have some personnel issues and until we really know who will 
do what I decided to throw everything to nobody until we can reassing them. We 
are not going anywhere or stopping mozilla.org support. In fact, we're working 
on models that might even increase the support levels we can offer to 
mozilla.org.

And wasn't this bug assigned to marki? That's not much better than nobody 
because he just went to sabattical.

Btw, there is no "Netscape IS". Haven't been for 2 years or so. It's AOL 
Internal Computing.

Updated

17 years ago
Blocks: 32922

Updated

17 years ago
Blocks: 34101

Updated

17 years ago
Blocks: 68165

Comment 16

17 years ago
*** Bug 59398 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Updated

17 years ago
No longer blocks: 59398
bug 59398 contains good info about steps that will have to be done to 
accomplish this... when closing this bug please double-check back there because 
that one has more details (despite dawn's claim when closing that one as a 
duplicate of this one)
Blocks: 17125

Updated

17 years ago
Blocks: 22846
(Assignee)

Comment 18

17 years ago
Risto - can you give us any idea when this bug will come out of limbo?

In November we asked for this to be done, and it was postponed for two months on 
the basis that it would be easy to do when getting a new server. It's now three 
months later, and no new server or newsgroups.

Can someone please run the "create newsgroup" script on news.mozilla.org seventy 
times? Please?

Gerv

Comment 19

17 years ago
gerv, can you attach a file with the current suggestion? (Discussion about it on
the newsgroup, announced here, please.)
(Assignee)

Comment 20

17 years ago
The final list is at the URL given in this bug.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "(Discussion about it on the newsgroup, 
announced here, please.)"

I am deeply against reopening the discussion on the newsgroups, because we'll be 
here for another two months. Everyone seemed happy with the document as it is 
(it hasn't changed for a while.)

Gerv

Comment 21

17 years ago
> The final list is at the URL given in this bug.

Oh, didn't see that, sorry.

> I am deeply against reopening the discussion on the newsgroups

I just meant that *if* somebody objects (which usually is the case), he
shouldn't do it *here*.
(Assignee)

Comment 22

17 years ago
risto (or endico): Any chance of an update?

Is the IS support for mozilla.org situation now more clear (one month on)? 
What's up with this nice new machine? Is there someone "officially responsible" 
or is this bug still assigned to nobody?

Gerv

Comment 23

17 years ago
the IS situation sucks just as much as ever. dont' expect that to change in the
near future.

Comment 24

17 years ago
So, what are we going to do with this bug?
(Assignee)

Comment 25

17 years ago
Dawn: what are the chances of getting the new groups created on the old server? 
We might not get the fancy features we wanted, but we'd get the name change and 
reorganisation wins.

Gerv

Comment 26

17 years ago
The old server is going away at the end of the month. This is a hard deadline.
(Assignee)

Comment 27

17 years ago
Does this mean that setting up a new one is also a hard deadline, or does it 
mean that we will be without news in 11 days?

Gerv

Comment 28

17 years ago
You'll be without news at the end of the month - just kidding!

I'm trying my best to have the new server ready ASAP.

Comment 29

17 years ago
IC can own this.
Assignee: nobody → mbaur
Whiteboard: AOL_IC_project
(Assignee)

Comment 30

17 years ago
mbaur: Thanks for taking this on :-) Any chance of giving us some idea as to 
when it might happen? This has been eagerly awaited by many people since 
November :-)

Gerv

Comment 31

17 years ago
I don't see how 62369 would block this. It's unrelated to news rearchitecture.
No longer depends on: 62369

Comment 32

17 years ago
Adding more bugs this is blocking.

Comment 33

17 years ago
This is thus a tracking bug.
Summary: Reorganise Mozilla news hierarchy → Reorganise Mozilla news hierarchy (tracking bug)

Updated

17 years ago
Blocks: 68866

Comment 34

17 years ago
I can own projects.
Assignee: mbaur → rko

Comment 35

17 years ago
This depends on SIR #21491 (opened 03/21/01) being completed.
(Assignee)

Updated

17 years ago
Blocks: 76363

Comment 36

16 years ago
New server is supposedly in place, we also have contractors helping us. We hope 
to get this completed 7/15/2001.

Comment 37

16 years ago
I can confirm that this didn't happen two days ago. What are the current plans?

Comment 38

16 years ago
i am told that the new machine was just recently placed in the rack and now
we're waiting for the os to be installed which will of course happen RSN.
The new eta is "Don't Hold Your Breath".

In the mean time, I figured out how to cancel articles (it can only be
done from inside the netscape firewall) and i've been deleting a bunch
of stuff one at a time by hand. Suboptimal, but better than nothing.

Comment 39

16 years ago
The latest on the new server is:

We're currently trying to figure out a bug in the latest inn release (2.3.2)
that causes problems with the history db.
(Assignee)

Updated

16 years ago
Blocks: 33494
Are you still working on the inn bug, or has the status of this bug changed?
Is there an ETA?

Updated

16 years ago
Blocks: 41671

Comment 41

16 years ago
Last comment in this bug was three months ago, and Andreas' question was never
answered. Is there an ETA for this?

Comment 42

16 years ago
Moving tickets to Ray.
Assignee: rko → daruszka

Comment 43

16 years ago
Here is your latest in the periodic saga of "is there an ETA on this?" requests.
Not that I have any expectation of an answer, or that the ETA will *ever* become
less than a constant N months away. But it can't hurt to keep poking, especially
since nobody seems to be listening anyway.

Comment 44

16 years ago
We're still watching... just having trouble executing.

Markus,
What should we do with this?

Comment 45

16 years ago
News -> Markus.
Assignee: daruszka → mbaur

Updated

16 years ago
Blocks: 122508

Comment 46

16 years ago
Please, guys, can you give us an ETA on this? Certain individuals in
n.p.m.general is now using the fact the newsgroups still have "netscape." on
them as part of some obscure "AOL Conspiracy Theory" or something... it's very
frustrating. We really need this name change.

At least give us an ETA, is that really too much to ask?

Comment 47

16 years ago
Mass changing IC's ticket to reflect current situation.

mozilla.org, AOL employees:

If you want IC to look at issues reported in bugzilla, please open a Helpdesk
ticket and ask it to be routed to AOL R1 Server Operations. We currently have no
way to handle comprehensive problem resolution through bugzilla. This is not a
change in the way we are supporting mozilla.org - we are still supporting you on
the level as before. IC's support is based on Helpdesk ticket system - not
bugzilla which only few hard-core people are looking at. 

Also, projects are handled elsewhere - not in bugzilla. If you have projects you
need us to deliver please feel free to contact me directly.

Summa summarum: tickets -> Helpdesk
Project initiations -> RKotalampi@aol.com

Assignee: mbaur → nobody
(Assignee)

Comment 48

16 years ago
endico - could you please open a Helpdesk ticket for this issue, as Risto requests?

Thank you.

Gerv

Comment 49

15 years ago
A bit of statistic: There were 75 posts to n.p.m.mail-news at May 9th (CET). Not
a *single one* of them was by a developer about Mozilla development. That makes
100% (!) noise. See
<http://groups.google.de/groups?hl=de&selm=3CDB4940.7080004%40beonex.com> or
<news://www.mozilla.org/3CDB4940.7080004@beonex.com> for more info.

Comment 50

15 years ago
Any news? Has a helpdesk ticket been opened?

Comment 51

15 years ago
It's been over three months. Can no one here answer Jonas' question?

Comment 52

15 years ago
Look like this is never going to happen, I suggest WONTFIX so people can start
thinking on alternate solutions.
(Assignee)

Comment 53

15 years ago
Why would WONTFIX be the right solution? Everyone wants this bug fixed; and we
have not given up hope of fixing it eventually. If you have alternate ideas in
the mean time, run them past staff@mozilla.org .

Gerv

Updated

15 years ago

Updated

15 years ago
Depends on: 44594

Comment 54

15 years ago
We should set severity to blocker and add `crash', `hang', `dataloss',
`regression', and `topperf' keywords :p
Keywords: nsdogfood

Comment 55

15 years ago
Daniel: Don't bother. The news admin is far too busy playing Freecell.

Comment 56

15 years ago
Garth, Daniel: What the heck is 'Freecell'? And why are you interrupting my
Klondike game with accusations like that?

Comment 57

15 years ago
Does mozilla.org really need its own news server? The netscape.public.mozilla.*
groups are already distributed by many ISPs and if the new groups were created
without limitations on distribution, I expect they would too.
Instead of waiting for AOL, all that is needed is for an organisation to
volunteer to host the new groups and from there they will spread to the rest of
the world? At least that how I understand the principle of Usenet.

Comment 58

15 years ago
Does anyone know what is going on with this?

Updated

15 years ago
Depends on: 176328

Updated

14 years ago
Depends on: 215294
Summary: Reorganise Mozilla news hierarchy (tracking bug) → Reorganise Mozilla news hierarchy (tracking bug) (npm usenet newsgroups)
(Assignee)

Comment 59

14 years ago
We discussed this at today's staff meeting. 

The situation is that we are currently still using Netscape's news server. We
have hardware for our own news server, but no resources to spare to set it up,
create the new groups, work out a transition plan and so on.

This bug would be far more likely to happen if an experienced news server admin
stepped forward and was able to commit to doing that work for us, and looking
after the server going forward. (This is really bug 215294). So there's a
challenge for anyone who wants to see this happen. :-|

Gerv

Updated

14 years ago
Blocks: 239931

Updated

14 years ago
No longer blocks: 239931
Depends on: 239931

Comment 60

13 years ago
Some feedback:

I recently witnessed a similar transition of one set
of forums to a re-named set of forums with the same
audience as the originals.  Even though all the posts
were migrated from old to new, the net result was a
huge drop in participation levels. Six months later,
participation is just now slowly building up again.

I therefore hope this transition is planned carefully.
There's more to it than just the technical legwork -
we want to both retain and expand existing communities.

The proposed group list doesn't provide forums for
app developers, or for newbies. The tone in existing
n.p.m. newsgroups has mostly been suitable for advanced
core developers only. Who are we trying to attract?

The proposed list also doesn't say where these
newsgroups intend to sit with respect to USENET or
with respect to privately run forums such as those at
XULplanet. There's no point duplicating those services
unless the intent is to directly compete. Just what
kind of service/community are these newsgroups to offer?
Is it desireable that xulplanet forums thrive or die?

This re-org should be more than just a series of tech steps,
it should be designed to grow community access to mozilla.

- N.

Updated

13 years ago
Depends on: 188380
QA Contact: endico → justdave
Whiteboard: AOL_IC_project
No longer depends on: 31514
Blocks: 34101
No longer depends on: 34101
Assignee: nobody → justdave
Component: Server Operations → Server Operations Projects
QA Contact: justdave → justin
Depends on: 173864
No longer depends on: 215294
No longer blocks: 34101
No longer depends on: 33494, 41671, 63735, 69699, 176328, 188380, 239931
Blocks: 114856
Blocks: 145126
Blocks: 216488
No longer blocks: 239931
Depends on: 239931
Assignee: justdave → gerv
Component: Server Operations Projects → Newsgroups
QA Contact: justin → justdave
This was a tracking bug.  All the blockers have been resolved, so this is now resolved as well.
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Last Resolved: 11 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
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